"The Edmonton Oilers are a useless franchise"

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Sure but...does he learn anything in the WHL if he goes back at 18? They couldn't send him to the AHL which would have been ideal.

I disagree with that part of the article. RNH showed he can play at the NHL level. He isn't comparable to cases like James Sheppard, Gilbert Brule, Rico Fata, Derrick Brassard and other kids who were rushed too early, lost confidence and had their careers derailed. Playing in the NHL was better for RNH's development than playing in junior IMO. And they've got a year of chemistry building with the other franchise forwards in EDM. And the Oilers can afford to lose one of his cheap years.

We all knew that RNH had the skill to play at the NHL level, but it was quite obvious that he was too small.

Hence the reason he got injured.

Johnny Hockey is skill wise probably ready for the big time. Is he physically ready? Do you think the Flames should take a chance on that ASAP? I don't. I'd prefer for him to be physically ready too.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

No guarantee he doesn't get injured in the WHL either. It's a physical league and he would've been the prime target of opposition teams all year long. His bulking up process is simply a matter of time, not at what level he's playing at. He doesn't bulk up quicker playing in the WHL, players generally bulk up in the offseason.

I agree there's no guarantee that he wouldn't be injured in the WHL, I just think there's less of a chance since teenagers aren't as big or filled out as NHL players. Plus the game is much faster in the NHL, where guys hit to hurt. I know if I was a hulking defenceman, I wouldn't feel bad about rocking a skinny 18 year old kid if he's playing in the NHL. It's their livelihood after all.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Interesting to observe the painful reconciliation process us Flames fans are having to the prospect of the Oilers finally being the better team.

Keep on dreaming! We heard all this BS last year. and even with Brent Sutter and his WHL coaching skills we still handed it to them.

[d_phaneuf]

I am shocked at the thoughts on Eberle

of all the Oilers young players he is the one who scares me most, I think he's in the top 10 in scoring for the next decade

He can't leave that team soon enough for me

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

No guarantee he doesn't get injured in the WHL either. It's a physical league and he would've been the prime target of opposition teams all year long. His bulking up process is simply a matter of time, not at what level he's playing at. He doesn't bulk up quicker playing in the WHL, players generally bulk up in the offseason.

Poor argument to make.

WHL is not as fast, and not as physical with smaller players at a slower paced game. Sure, he would have dominated, but he could have put on weight and worked on other intangibles.

Skinner is a different case, as he was 190lbs in his rookie year. Nobody in the NHL plays at 160lbs and doesn't get hurt.

The Oilers were going to suck anyways, and if RNH is as good as we all think he is, one extra year in the WHL wouldn't have held him back at all.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Interesting to observe the painful reconciliation process us Flames fans are having to the prospect of the Oilers finally being the better team.

Just like we had last year when they were going to be the better team and the year before when we heard about them being the better team, or the year they were going to score 300+ goals and take the league by storm.

Forgive some posters if they want to wait and see this supposed great team pass the Flames by before crowing them champs of Alberta. I for on can see the glaring holes on their team and have heard them being trumped up before to think it is just a given.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I am shocked at the thoughts on Eberle

of all the Oilers young players he is the one who scares me most, I think he's in the top 10 in scoring for the next decade

He can't leave that team soon enough for me

haha. wanna bet?

[moon]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'm actually quite suprised by Moon's opinion of Eberle. From previous posts, he's the biggest fan of Team Canada WJ teams. I would have expected him to talk glowingly of Eberle.

I think he was a great player in the WJHC but his "clutchness" is greatly overrated based on having that big moment that is shown over and over again with the last second goal in which Tavares and especially Ellis were actually the guys that made the impressive plays on that goal.

Guys have played better than Eberle in the WJHC but he gets overrated in large part because on that simple play that he was lucky to get the bounce on.

[moon]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I am shocked at the thoughts on Eberle

of all the Oilers young players he is the one who scares me most, I think he's in the top 10 in scoring for the next decade

He can't leave that team soon enough for me

I think Hall and RNH definitely have more skill than him but he does seem a safer choice to turn out due to Hall's reckless play and RNH slight build.

[Erick Estrada]

I disagree about Eberle being lucky in fact I like him better than Hall but there is no doubt that they have somewhat rushed these guys into the NHL as Hall and RNH have looked fragile.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Azure

We all knew that RNH had the skill to play at the NHL level, but it was quite obvious that he was too small.

Hence the reason he got injured.

Johnny Hockey is skill wise probably ready for the big time. Is he physically ready? Do you think the Flames should take a chance on that ASAP? I don't. I'd prefer for him to be physically ready too.

Well they aren't perfect comparables for a few reasons.

1) RNH is obviously a potential franchise forward, not convinced Gaudreau is at the same level.
2) When Gaudreau chooses to turn pro he'll be able to play in the AHL or NHL. RNH had to return to a league he had already dominated or play in the NHL, he couldn't turn pro any other way unless he played a couple more years in junior first.
3) RNH finished 4th in the WHL in scoring in his draft year and was one of the most dangerous players in that league despite being a year or two younger than most of the players. Gaudreau may finish amongst the leaders in college hockey this year and be recognized as one of the top college players. He was a point per game last year. However in his draft year he played in a much weaker league. Not many players go from the USHL to the NHL immediately.
4) Johnny is playing in college which has a much lighter schedule that allows the players to train and bulk up during the season. RNH could only play in the NHL or WHL, both leagues with heavy schedules that prevent a lot of training and bulking up in-season.

I think Gaudreau is probably ready to turn pro. I don't think he's as elite of a prospect/player as RNH. The Flames will have the flexibility of starting him in the minors or in the NHL. Johnny is fine developing in college, he'd be fine developing in the AHL. Not convinced he was NHL ready this season.

I don't think the choice of where Gaudreau or RNH should play is based mostly on their body development. I think the choice of where they should play is based mostly on what is best for their hockey development. A bit of a different question for those two players as they are obviously not identical players or in identical situations. In some ways Baertschi and RNH are much better comparables.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Azure

Poor argument to make.

WHL is not as fast, and not as physical with smaller players at a slower paced game. Sure, he would have dominated, but he could have put on weight and worked on other intangibles.

Skinner is a different case, as he was 190lbs in his rookie year. Nobody in the NHL plays at 160lbs and doesn't get hurt.

The Oilers were going to suck anyways, and if RNH is as good as we all think he is, one extra year in the WHL wouldn't have held him back at all.

The WHL is not as physical? How many games have you've seen? I had season tickets for the Hitmen one year and have seen games in many seasons and it is a very physical league. In some ways more physical than the NHL, I believe there are more fights per game. And with mistakes being less costly in some ways, reckless hitters are more willing to take themselves out of the play with a big hit or a big missed hit in the WHL.

I will agree that is not anywhere near as fast, I'll give you that.

I brought up Skinner, Hall, Seguin, and Crosby, because one poster seemed to be indicating the main reason to not play RNH in the NHL was to save a year on his ELC deal. I was not comparing Skinner to RNH in physical development.

[Ped]

The article is clearly trolling.

And how you can't just say RNH is too small so he should have stayed back. He was listed as heavier then Patrick Kane was, for example, and Kane has missed 9 games since his draft.

Besides, you'd have to go back to 2006 to see the last #1 to not play the following season (D Erik Johnson) and all the way back to 1989 to see the last forward #1 that did not play the following season (exceptions of course for Ovechkin and Lindros)

[FlamesAddiction]

Wow.... just wow.

Can you say Pulitzer!?

Poignant, honest, and straight to the point.

[Bertuzzied]

I'm glad he linked a picture to Pauline Gretzky in there. Duck face 99 is just as overrated as the Oilers.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well they aren't perfect comparables for a few reasons.

1) RNH is obviously a potential franchise forward, not convinced Gaudreau is at the same level.
2) When Gaudreau chooses to turn pro he'll be able to play in the AHL or NHL. RNH had to return to a league he had already dominated or play in the NHL, he couldn't turn pro any other way unless he played a couple more years in junior first.
3) RNH finished 4th in the WHL in scoring in his draft year and was one of the most dangerous players in that league despite being a year or two younger than most of the players. Gaudreau may finish amongst the leaders in college hockey this year and be recognized as one of the top college players. He was a point per game last year. However in his draft year he played in a much weaker league. Not many players go from the USHL to the NHL immediately.
4) Johnny is playing in college which has a much lighter schedule that allows the players to train and bulk up during the season. RNH could only play in the NHL or WHL, both leagues with heavy schedules that prevent a lot of training and bulking up in-season.

I think Gaudreau is probably ready to turn pro. I don't think he's as elite of a prospect/player as RNH. The Flames will have the flexibility of starting him in the minors or in the NHL. Johnny is fine developing in college, he'd be fine developing in the AHL. Not convinced he was NHL ready this season.

I don't think the choice of where Gaudreau or RNH should play is based mostly on their body development. I think the choice of where they should play is based mostly on what is best for their hockey development. A bit of a different question for those two players as they are obviously not identical players or in identical situations. In some ways Baertschi and RNH are much better comparables.

Why isn't Graudreau ready? Because he's small. His hockey IQ and overall skill are always being raved about. He made a fool of Dougie Hamilton, who from all accounts is NHL ready, and in a game against 'NHL ready' RNH, he dominated.

But he's small, and would get destroyed in a faster game with bigger players.

RNH is the same way. All the skill in the world, but he's small. 160lbs is SMALL. He wasn't ready physically last season, and got injured as a result.

Jeff Skinner was 190lbs his first year. Crosby was 190lbs as well.

You simply can't argue that RNH was ready for the more physical NHL against bigger players.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The WHL is not as physical? How many games have you've seen? I had season tickets for the Hitmen one year and have seen games in many seasons and it is a very physical league. In some ways more physical than the NHL, I believe there are more fights per game. And with mistakes being less costly in some ways, reckless hitters are more willing to take themselves out of the play with a big hit or a big missed hit in the WHL.

I will agree that is not anywhere near as fast, I'll give you that.

I brought up Skinner, Hall, Seguin, and Crosby, because one poster seemed to be indicating the main reason to not play RNH in the NHL was to save a year on his ELC deal. I was not comparing Skinner to RNH in physical development.

No the WHL is not as physical, simply because it is not as fast, and the players aren't as big. The NHL is the superior league for a reason. Can't believe you want to argue this point.

RNH was too small to play last year. That plus the fact that the Oilers were going to suck is reason enough to keep him in the WHL one more year.

[EddyBeers]

Someone can come tell me that Hall is better than Eberle when he finally tops Eberle in points in a season. Eberle beat him in their rookie year, beat him last year, beat him this year in the AHL, he will beat him in the shortened season. Saying Eberle is a fluke just defies logic.

[moon]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Someone can come tell me that Hall is better than Eberle when he finally tops Eberle in points in a season. Eberle beat him in their rookie year, beat him last year, beat him this year in the AHL, he will beat him in the shortened season. Saying Eberle is a fluke just defies logic.

They are fairly close when you look at PPG but Eberle has played more games so has been outscoring him you are right about that.

Who said Eberle was a fluke? I missed that comment in the thread.

[itsmagic]

So for all the armchair GM talk of how the Oilers should have kept RNH in junior for another year, does the same apply to our Flames and to Sven?