anyone else embarrased?

[sebbie]

as a smoker this is kinda dumb,most my friends are non smokers and when we go out the first thing we do is pick a place that is "smoking". It is easier to find a place where we can all relax and sit without someone leaving the conversation every 20 minutes. It just bugs me when some health freak tells me i cant have a smoke with a beer because it iritates them, well it iritates me that smokes are legal but smoking is starting to be ilegal. Next time a 300 LB person tells me smoking is bad for my health while they are sucking down there 7th big mac im gonna give them slap upside the head.

Aside from all that crap, as a smoker what i want is simple.ban smoking all together or screw off and let me enjoy my slow ride to the cancer ward. Also i dont like people telling me they are affected by my smoking when they go to a smoking establishment, god thats like a mormon going to a nudy bar and complaining there are too many tities.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by ####le@Jun 25 2005, 03:52 PM
as a smoker this is kinda dumb,most my friends are non smokers and when we go out the first thing we do is pick a place that is "smoking". It is easier to find a place where we can all relax and sit without someone leaving the conversation every 20 minutes. It just bugs me when some health freak tells me i cant have a smoke with a beer because it iritates them, well it iritates me that smokes are legal but smoking is starting to be ilegal. Next time a 300 LB person tells me smoking is bad for my health while they are sucking down there 7th big mac im gonna give them slap upside the head.

Aside from all that crap, as a smoker what i want is simple.ban smoking all together or screw off and let me enjoy my slow ride to the cancer ward. Also i dont like people telling me they are affected by my smoking when they go to a smoking establishment, god thats like a mormon going to a nudy bar and complaining there are too many tities.

Nice attitude.

So basically if I want to enjoy going to a bar I have to tolerate someone doing something that directly impacts my health in a negative manner?

Your analogy with the mormon isn't even close to being relevant. Your right it would be stupid to go to a nudie bar if your values are opposed to it. But what should people do like myself that enjoy pubs/bars but can't stand smoke. Two different things man.

[sebbie]

[quote]Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Jun 25 2005, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by fatale,Jun 25 2005, 03:52 PM

as a smoker this is kinda dumb,most .......

Nice attitude.

So basically if I want to enjoy going to a bar I have to tolerate someone doing something that directly impacts my health in a negative manner?

Your analogy with the mormon isn't even close to being relevant. Your right it would be stupid to go to a nudie bar if your values are opposed to it. But what should people do like myself that enjoy pubs/bars but can't stand smoke. Two different things man.

Its people like you jiri that make life so difficult. The thing with the mormon was a bit of a crack, more of a if you dont like it dont go there. Plenty of non smoking places you can go to. I dont like non smoking places so i dont go there, is that so hard? you need the goverment to hold your hand for every thing? you dont like smoking so ban it , its my health blah blah blah, this is horse shinguard.

damn, the polution in the air kills you, beer, cars, stress and even a good ol steak can kill you, shat a pretzle almost killed the president . do you really need the government to protect you from all this?


then you said that you enjoy bars and why should you have to tolorate second hand smoke. well why do i have to go outside in minus -35 weather and get hypothermia {sp?} and risk my health for you . your whole post was "i dont like smoking so you change". like you said "Nice attitude. "



careful jiri, put on sun screen if your on a patio, might get skin cancer. or maybe we need to ban patios, or force them to give out free sun screen?

[transplant99]

Im just lost as to a whole bunch of the responses.

OK...so I open a bar that WILL allow smoking. Why is that so flippn bad for non-smokers? They will have a myriad of their own choices to choose from. Clearly when 75% of the population doesnt smoke...well then thats 3 times more people to tap as prospective customers than a smoking bar woud be able to draw from.

You dont wanna go to a place that allows smoking...dont go.

You go into that bar knowing its a smoking establishment....then you best expect to encounter smoke!!

Its your choice.

But what im getting out of the PC crowd here is that....we dont smoke, so ALL places should not allow it. Tough tittie.

Its completely up to you whether you attend those places or not, and i will point out that smoking is still a completely legal action that the government already makes BILLIONS of dollars a year off of.

[shoestring]

Originally posted by fotze@Jun 25 2005, 09:35 PM
That's funny I would have pegged T99 as an anti-smoking nazi. Weird,

Maybe he is just a capitalist. And believes in a free market .
And wants less government.

Hell make it illegal,I betcha that prohibition would work too. B-) :P

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by transplant99@Jun 25 2005, 08:45 PM
Im just lost as to a whole bunch of the responses.

OK...so I open a bar that WILL allow smoking. Why is that so flippn bad for non-smokers? They will have a myriad of their own choices to choose from. Clearly when 75% of the population doesnt smoke...well then thats 3 times more people to tap as prospective customers than a smoking bar woud be able to draw from.

You dont wanna go to a place that allows smoking...dont go.

You go into that bar knowing its a smoking establishment....then you best expect to encounter smoke!!

Its your choice.

But what im getting out of the PC crowd here is that....we dont smoke, so ALL places should not allow it. Tough tittie.

Its completely up to you whether you attend those places or not, and i will point out that smoking is still a completely legal action that the government already makes BILLIONS of dollars a year off of.

All valid points TP - logically one would think that if you opened a non-smoking bar it would attract all the non-smokers. But I know for a fact that bars that have tried this in the Calgary market have failed miserably.

75% of the population wants non-smoking bars, however, it would seem that a much smaller percentage actually base their decision on where to go on whether they allow smoking or not.

Bottom line - if I was opening a bar in a city that allowed smoking you better believe I would allow smoking in my bar - I don't want to cut out 25% of the market when non-smokers have proven they will at the end of the day tolerate smoking. But as a non-smoker, i sure would be happier if they'd ban it.

[JiriHrdina]

Plenty of non smoking places you can go to. I dont like non smoking places so i dont go there, is that so hard? you need the goverment to hold your hand for every thing? you dont like smoking so ban it , its my health blah blah blah, this is horse shinguard.

Yes I have plenty of non smoking places I can go - but I don't have plenty of non smoking bars I can go to. In fact - none in my area of the city. zero.

damn, the polution in the air kills you, beer, cars, stress and even a good ol steak can kill you, shat a pretzle almost killed the president . do you really need the government to protect you from all this?

yes but smoking is the only thing that another person does that directly negatively impacts my health. If I choose to eat a steak and it kills me - my choice. You choose to smoke though and it harms me. Different. And yes i do want the government to protect me from stuff that harms me - that's why I pay my taxes.

why do i have to go outside in minus -35 weather and get hypothermia {sp?} and risk my health for you . your whole post was "i dont like smoking so you change". like you said "Nice attitude. "

Because its your choice to smoke and the majority of the population doesn't like it. Majority rules. Why should the 75% of us tolerate the other 25% and their habit that harms us. It should be the other way around.

Bottom line - put this issue to a referendum (or is it plebicite on a municipal level) and let the public decide.

[FlamesAddiction]

Personally, I would choose a non-smoking bar/restaurant over a smoking one IF I had the choice. Unfortunately, there is no choice here, and I'm not going to stay at home all the time.

Fortunately, all my smoking friends at least have the courtesy to not light up at our table, and instead choose to go outside. Even though others in the bar still smoke, it still helps not having it right in your face.

[shoestring]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Jun 25 2005, 11:47 PM
Plenty of non smoking places you can go to. I dont like non smoking places so i dont go there, is that so hard? you need the goverment to hold your hand for every thing? you dont like smoking so ban it , its my health blah blah blah, this is horse shinguard.

Yes I have plenty of non smoking places I can go - but I don't have plenty of non smoking bars I can go to. In fact - none in my area of the city. zero.

damn, the polution in the air kills you, beer, cars, stress and even a good ol steak can kill you, shat a pretzle almost killed the president . do you really need the government to protect you from all this?

yes but smoking is the only thing that another person does that directly negatively impacts my health. If I choose to eat a steak and it kills me - my choice. You choose to smoke though and it harms me. Different. And yes i do want the government to protect me from stuff that harms me - that's why I pay my taxes.

why do i have to go outside in minus -35 weather and get hypothermia {sp?} and risk my health for you . your whole post was "i dont like smoking so you change". like you said "Nice attitude. "

Because its your choice to smoke and the majority of the population doesn't like it. Majority rules. Why should the 75% of us tolerate the other 25% and their habit that harms us. It should be the other way around.

Bottom line - put this issue to a referendum (or is it plebicite on a municipal level) and let the public decide.

I still do not get it.
Any industry and I mean any industry that had 75% of the market to cater too would take the chance,bite the bullet,go for it.

Lots of drinkers smoke maybe people that attend museums don't. Or they don't complain about not being able to.Or maybe they recogonize non-smoking places.

Don't let the general populace decide.Do they go to bars? I don't think so.
They might go to libraries or movies or museums or lots of non-smoking places but do they drink at bars?Fancy restaurants?
Let the market decide.
You have no bars to go to.START one!

Or do smokers drink more than non-smokers at bars?
I bet yes and why I continue in this discussion.

Oh and I drive a car and believe me that harms you.
And the 1/one log that i burn in a campfire puts as much pollutants in the
air as 150 vehicles do in a year. (Fridays Globe and Mail)
Ban fireplaces.
And golf courses because they are wasting land and water,
taking away natural wetponds ,therefore nature, that allow
new bugs and plants to affect my life.
Steep slope.imo

Majority doesn't rule for a legal product. It just doesn't.
I agree with you 99% of the time Jiri but your health concerns are
of little relevance, as our mine.
If you expect a government to protect you from stuff that harms you
you are asking for a lot of interferrence in your life.
I want them out of my life to the nth degree.

[Hakan]

Smoking is banned in bars in Vancouver but almost every bar has an outdoor area where people can smoke or they have a contained smoking vestibule where people can smoke. It works great. Tons of people go to the bar still proving that it doesn't hurt business and all of the smokers I talk to actually agree with and like the ban as they don't have to dance or sit in an incredibly smokey disgusting bar.

It's really a win for everyone.

[Sylvanfan]

The thing with smoking in the workplace is not the customers of the establishment but the employees. Establishments that allow smoking are exposing their employees to an extra health risk. So the problem there is how do you dole out liability when a waitress who worked at a bar develops lung cancer. Does the proprietor of the smoking only place have her sign a waiver of liability before he/she starts work there? Right now it's a WCB issue as much as anything.

Last summer for my Honeymoon I went on a cruise on the Carnival Paradise which was the worlds only smoke free ship at the time. The ship now allows smoking because Carnival was losing too much money on that ship. Their reasoning is that non-smokers are generally healthier people who don't drink and gamble as much. I imagine a lot of bar and pub owners hold the same attitude. Rather than innovate and devise a way to convince non-smokers to spend their money in other ways they just sit and complain about not being able to continue doing things the same way they have for years.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I think a very valid arguement here is one of Workplace health and safety. Why should a waitress who doesn't smoke have to in hale smoke for her entire shift? It is dangerous for her.

Okay, here come the She doens't have to work there comments. That doesn't matter, everyone has the right to a safe work environment, and restaraunt staff are no different. What if drill rigs were given this decision "You can either be safe for all your workers, or hire workers that don't mind being crushed, or burned alive".

Choice of the consumer aside (because as nice as it would be for you to actually beleive that there is no financial disadvantage for a bar/restaraunt to be smoke free in an envirnoment where they weren't legally required to be) the workers safety/health should be enought reason for smoking to be illegal in public places.