Rolling Blackouts in Calgary

[Resolute 14]

Has that giant transmission line been approved yet? If not, one could accuse AESO of setting it up to show the "transparent need" of said line.

Seriously though, I was a fan. The area around MRU seemed to be the first area that went out, around quarter to two. Our office waited ten minutes, then evacuated per our policies (30 mins backup generator, then it's fumbling your way down eight storeys in pitch black stairways), then went home early. Yay brownouts!

[JD]

Originally Posted by Timbo

A couple days of summer temps and we are in a heat wave? Rolling blackouts...has the city overgrown the power supply? Or is it economics?

I'm glad it's been clarified as just a freak event in a day in the life of the Alberta power grid. Because this weather we're having right now is nothing more than what they refer to in Abu Dhabi as "winter".

Though it makes one wonder how much greater the power usage is in a place like Vegas or Abu Dhabi/Dubai when it's 40+ degrees outside and everywhere indoors is a nice comfy 21 (or even cooler). I'm sure the google could answer that question if the heat wasn't so stifling...

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I suppose if people knew a blackout was coming they'd probably crank the AC and run all their appliances right before also.

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

It's half an hour... all of those won't be a problem except saving your work. Get a UPS if it's that critical. Giving advance warning for rolling blackouts which are constantly moving around to shed load, depending on load balancing? Don't see how that's possible.

I'm actually quite indifferent to it, was just replying to this first post that suggested advance warning would only lead to people running appliances when there'd likely be much more important things people would do with their advance warning.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Has that giant transmission line been approved yet? If not, one could accuse AESO of setting it up to show the "transparent need" of said line.

I actually think this could be the case.... It also cooincides nicely with the advertising on radio claiming the need for that giant line.

Recently, I was in a "coffee discussion" with a councilman from one of the counties that the line is proposed to go through. He was convinced that Albertans will see no benefit from the said line - that it is really to sell power to the United States. Claiming a need for it allows the bill for the huge construction undertaking to be shifted to the Albertan tax payer. This councilman also claimed that once the line is approved and built, the average Albertan's power bill could very well double.

I dont know much about the situation, and havent done any research, but he sure did not paint a rosey picture at all.

[Northendzone]

Thankfully new Brighton was spared from this.

[Yasa]

Do they have a warning system for this that I'm not aware of? Or is it one of those really stressful decisions, where the energy leader and the admiral of the powerplant walk through a series of thick doors guarded by keypads, retina scanners, 5 secret dance moves only identified by the kinect, etc. and 2 different keys are needed to be turned at the same time...things? I'll forgive them if it's the latter.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Power generation needs to be closer to the power consumption. We need to make 240 kv lines obsolete

We need small LFTRs.

FLIBE Energy is currently working on it, and the Chinese, they are working on it too.

[V]

Originally Posted by Draug

I actually think this could be the case.... It also cooincides nicely with the advertising on radio claiming the need for that giant line.

Recently, I was in a "coffee discussion" with a councilman from one of the counties that the line is proposed to go through. He was convinced that Albertans will see no benefit from the said line - that it is really to sell power to the United States. Claiming a need for it allows the bill for the huge construction undertaking to be shifted to the Albertan tax payer. This councilman also claimed that once the line is approved and built, the average Albertan's power bill could very well double.

I dont know much about the situation, and havent done any research, but he sure did not paint a rosey picture at all.

That councilman is uneducated in the issue. The province will greatly benefit from an upgrade to a system that has been grossly ignored for decades.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by Draug

I actually think this could be the case.... It also cooincides nicely with the advertising on radio claiming the need for that giant line.

Recently, I was in a "coffee discussion" with a councilman from one of the counties that the line is proposed to go through. He was convinced that Albertans will see no benefit from the said line - that it is really to sell power to the United States. Claiming a need for it allows the bill for the huge construction undertaking to be shifted to the Albertan tax payer. This councilman also claimed that once the line is approved and built, the average Albertan's power bill could very well double.

I dont know much about the situation, and havent done any research, but he sure did not paint a rosey picture at all.

Alberta is a net importer of electricity and given our growth that probably going true for a while.

Also AESO now puts it's market information out on they're website now.
http://www.aeso.ca/market/8856.html

[firebug]

Originally Posted by calumniate

^^ or how about those awesome carnival rides?

A small portion of the midway was down for about 45 minutes.

That included the sky ride where people were left dangling for the whole duration of the outage.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by firebug

That included the sky ride where people were left dangling for the whole duration of the outage.

Well since the sky ride is sponsored by WestJet it's kind of funny, like when you get stranded on the tarmac at the airport during a lightning storm and can't get off the plane. That experience, now at the Stampede (in stifling heat instead of a thunderstorm)!

[NuclearPizzaMan]

How does a larger transmission system help a problem caused by failure of 6 generators?

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by NuclearPizzaMan

How does a larger transmission system help a problem caused by failure of 6 generators?

Just finished listening to an AESO rep on the Rutherford show. He closed with a strong confirmation that yesterday's issue was completely a generation problem and additional transmission wouldn't have changed the result.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Just finished listening to an AESO rep on the Rutherford show. He closed with a strong confirmation that yesterday's issue was completely a generation problem and additional transmission wouldn't have changed the result.

Yeah, a lack of generation on a high demand day doesn't mean we need more transportation (two transmission lines bigger than any we've ever built before, at the same time) it means we need more generation.

If power producers were paid a transmission differential so that they got some of the savings from not building transmission lines for building power plants closer to loads, we wouldn't need new transmission.

We could build new power plants and build transmission lines to move the power to market. Or we could build new power plants close to market.

[BlackArcher101]

We need new generation AND transmission. They are in fact building new generation plants, but unfortuantely those take years to build and start functioning. I think the Calgary Shepherd Energy Center will have a 800MW capacity, due in 2015?

The demand from the Oil Sands sites as increased exponentially as well, but thankfully most of them have their own power generation. I believe in peak times they may be feeding back into the network as required.

Until then, we need to import energy and start stabilizing the transmission network. The south is especially bad.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

We need new generation AND transmission. They are in fact building new generation plants, but unfortuantely those take years to build and start functioning. I think the Calgary Shepherd Energy Center will have a 800MW capacity, due in 2015?

The demand from the Oil Sands sites as increased exponentially as well, but thankfully most of them have their own power generation. I believe in peak times they may be feeding back into the network as required.

Until then, we need to import energy and start stabilizing the transmission network. The south is especially bad.

We definitely need extra generation to get the wind power that's already been built in the South to market. I'm saying we shouldn't build new expensive power lines to accomodate additional growth in coal fired generation around Edmonton. Let's build the power plants in and around the load (Calgary) like Enmax plant mentioned above.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

The demand from the Oil Sands sites as increased exponentially as well, but thankfully most of them have their own power generation. I believe in peak times they may be feeding back into the network as required.

We sell power back to the grid all the time. It helps us lower our operating costs quite nicely. With the heat, the gas turbine generators become less efficient, they make the most power in the dead of winter when the air is extremely dense.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by firebug

A small portion of the midway was down for about 45 minutes.

That included the sky ride where people were left dangling for the whole duration of the outage.

Portions of the midway were off grid for a lot longer than that. I believe emergency power got people off the skyride. They had portable lights set up to get people safely off park when Nashville North closed last night.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Julio

Portions of the midway were off grid for a lot longer than that. I believe emergency power got people off the skyride. They had portable lights set up to get people safely off park when Nashville North closed last night.

According to Enmax those outages weren't related to the generation issue.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...168/story.html

[Coys1882]

Strange how when it's super cold or super hot all these generation plants go down for maintenance just after the trading floors have bought a ton of cheap power - then the price goes through the roof and blammo - mega profits.