Texas dad beats 4-year-old daughter's alleged attacker to death

[Buff]

I can't even go there. I can't even imagine what I would do. I can't imagine such harm coming to my children. It just sickens me to hear about the abuse that some kids are put through. I'm glad the father did what he did. He went too far, but it attacker deserved it.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Locke

4 year old girl. I dont get how that could possibly be sexually attractive.

And a pedophile would not get how you could possibly find adults of your preferred gender sexually attractive. That's what makes them pedophiles and you not one.

In general I would never condone killing in self defense, and while I don't know exactly what I'd do in that exact situation, I do know a couple of people that were molested as kids and their view on it leans more towards "icky" rather than "it's ruined my life", and they seem pretty well balanced and successful adults capable of relationships, so I don't know if I'd have a killing rage because of it.

But I can definitely see how it could happen.

[photon]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah its certainly bizarre, but the sooner we accept the fact that some people are attracted to that age maybe is when we can start to understand it and, help?

You're in the minority for sure, most people think torches and pitchforks are the answer.

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

People who are born with that attraction aren't bad people, can they help it, I don't know. The acting on your attraction, that's the evil part.

I'm sure there are people who have these attractions all their lives and never act on them. We need to understand why those that act, do.

I don't know, random brain droppings.

I agree, they have an attraction that just happens to be harmful to who they're attracted to, so worst case is just helping them with self control. Someday maybe we can re-program their brains or something, but as far as I know there's no cure now.

[Ryan Coke]

Much as I enjoy making harsh judgements based on a short news story, I would have to know more details. Yes of course I would err on the side of more rather than less violence in protecting my daughters, but that doesn't give anyone carte blanche to kill someone.

How naked were they? What exactly was occurring? How long was the dad beating the guy? How long was the guy unable to defend and was still getting beaten?

No question the dad should get a lot of latitude, but if he comes across them after 30 seconds, they have only their shirts off, then dad beat him for 5 minutes when he was unconscious after the first couple of punches, he should be held accountable.

And even if I might want to do the same thing, that isn't what the law should be based on.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by photon

And a pedophile would not get how you could possibly find adults of your preferred gender sexually attractive. That's what makes them pedophiles and you not one.

In general I would never condone killing in self defense, and while I don't know exactly what I'd do in that exact situation, I do know a couple of people that were molested as kids and their view on it leans more towards "icky" rather than "it's ruined my life", and they seem pretty well balanced and successful adults capable of relationships, so I don't know if I'd have a killing rage because of it.

But I can definitely see how it could happen.

Fair enough. I just dont understand it.

[octothorp]

Horrible story, I can't even imagine being in that father's shoes. I think the right thing is to charge him with manslaughter, acknowledge the extreme provocation involved, and recommend the minimum sentence... a quick google search suggests that probation is a valid sentencing for manslaughter in Texas. I can't imagine that any prosecutor would push for more than that in these circumstances.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

he was protecting his 4-year old daughter, i think it counts as self defense regardless. you have a duty as a parent to protect your children, all he did was perform that duty

Believe me I 100% support what this guy did, but at this point its the technicalities of the legal system that will determine whether he gets charged and what he gets charged with. I would of course like to see him walk, which is why if he could use self-defense that would obviously increase his chances of walking.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Believe me I 100% support what this guy did, but at this point its the technicalities of the legal system that will determine whether he gets charged and what he gets charged with. I would of course like to see him walk, which is why if he could use self-defense that would obviously increase his chances of walking.

you read the article right?

[MarchHare]

I'm not a lawyer, but doesn't the use of lethal force have to be justified in court when making a self defense claim? Obviously none of us know many details beyond what was linked in the OP, but wouldn't shouting "HEY! WHAT THE $#@ ARE YOU DOING TO MY DAUGHTER?!" have been enough to stop the sexual assault?

I tend to think octothorp has it right. The state has to send a message that there's no place for vigalante justice in a civilized society, but there were certainly very strong mitigating circumstances that should be taken into consideration during sentencing. Based on the information we know from the OP (which is obviously incomplete), a manslaughter charge with the prosecution recommending the minimum sentence seems reasonable to me.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

you read the article right?

Yes....he hasn't been charged....yet....because they still have to do an investigation and convene a grand jury first.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm not a lawyer, but doesn't the use of lethal force have to be justified in court when making a self defense claim? Obviously none of us know many details beyond what was linked in the OP, but wouldn't shouting "HEY! WHAT THE $#@ ARE YOU DOING TO MY DAUGHTER?!" have been enough to stop the sexual assault?

I tend to think octothorp has it right. The state has to send a message that there's no place for vigalante justice in a civilized society, but there were certainly very strong mitigating circumstances that should be taken into consideration during sentencing. Based on the information we know from the OP (which is obviously incomplete), a manslaughter charge with the prosecution recommending the minimum sentence seems reasonable to me.

It does, but this is Texas, so the standard is about what you would expect it to be in Texas.

[You Need a Thneed]

I don't have too much problem with the father. The question is, can he prove that a molestation happened? Does he need to prove that?

To some level, I think he does, in order to prevent people from murdering others and then giving the excuse that the person had done something equally as terrible to someone that they loved.

I hope I never have to find out if I'd do the same thing.

[photon]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm not a lawyer, but doesn't the use of lethal force have to be justified in court when making a self defense claim?

Or even if it can be used. I think it varies by jurisdiction, I'd wager that what's allowable in Texas is wildly different than what's ok in Canada.

[tussery]

Since no one here is actually clear on Texas law let me post the following.

§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another: (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; (2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated; and (3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A) to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery. (b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor.

Now the point where it becomes an issue is how much force was required to prevent the sexual assault. If a punch to the face is enough to stop the incident then that is where it should end. Going beyond that point and murdering the person is after they have stopped is against the law.

[Tailgator]

His sentence should be 20 minutes of community service. These will be served as lessons on teaching all dads how to kick the living crap out of some low-life scum who messes with kids. After serving his sentence, his record is expunged.

I applaud this guy and could not imagine what I would do had I caught this diseased mutant touching my daughter. It's not like the justice system ever sides with the victims anyway.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Tailgator

His sentence should be 20 minutes of community service. These will be served as lessons on teaching all dads how to kick the living crap out of some low-life scum who messes with kids. After serving his sentence, his record is expunged.

I applaud this guy and could not imagine what I would do had I caught this diseased mutant touching my daughter. It's not like the justice system ever sides with the victims anyway.

Taking care of the towels on the sidelines of the Dallas Cowboys should be enough to send a strong message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.

[Forever Flames]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Some would argue it's not though; the girl didn't die.

But I know what you mean and agree.

The emotional and mental trauma that can follow a person around for the rest of their lives after being molested, even potentially turning them into an offender themselves, is much worse than a quick death. Torment for a lifetime is down right evil.

You are right about one thing, it's not an eye for an eye, the molester got the better end of the deal.

Edit: Didn't read the rest of the posts, but now notice my post above is redundant. Also, to anyone who thinks it would be a better idea to just castrate these people, it's not a solution, they will just find different means of molestation. I for one have no issue with what the father did and fully expect that of myself if someone were to molest my daughter. And considering how molesters typically repeat and get worse as they get more comfortable, the father likely saved many other children from this horrible experience. In the even a molester goes to jail instead of being killed, I don't think there should ever be parole.

[Imported_Aussie]

Cannot condone murder, but can fully understand the actions the father took.
Being witness to something that traumatic would cause "temporary insanity" - that would be the way to acknowledge the action he took was wrong - you cannot take the law into your own hands, but also acknowledging that such an event would cause a normal person to lose control of their emotions.
Give the guy probation, he isn't likely to reoffend, and if he does, then he should face the consequences for that offence with prior violence noted

[FlamesAddiction]

Yes, he did the right thing (assuming what he says the other guy did was true).

But yes, he should still be charged. You can't have unqualified people roaming around and handing out justice in a free country (see the Taliban).

[valo403]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yes, he did the right thing (assuming what he says the other guy did was true).

But yes, he should still be charged. You can't have unqualified people roaming around and handing out justice in a free country (see the Taliban).

Again, that's not at all what happened. He wasn't out looking for justice, he was responding to a witnessed assault on his daughter. That's a completely different situation.

(I'm taking the reports as true, obviously there should be further investigation to confirm that)