Florida's finest at work

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by jonesy+Apr 25 2005, 11:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jonesy @ Apr 25 2005, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Apr 24 2005, 11:35 PM

From what I saw in that video -- if I was the teacher in the room I'd probably send the other kids out and then I'd sit down and watch. Unless the kid is on speed or something, that behaviour won't go on for long.

I think this is an unworkable method. If you clear out the class room and just 'watch' every time a kid goes snakey you haven't addressed the problem at all.

Kids are smart, they would see through you in a NY minute. If you have 25 kids in a class, you would get at least 5 trying that technique, you would probably end up clearing the classroom and 'watching' at least once per week.

The result is that none of the kids would get a good education, and what are the other kids doing in the hall while you idly watch a tantrum with a bemused Cosby style grin plastered on your face. I bet they aren't going to be angelic with no supervision in the hall or wherever you marshal them.

If you show a weakness, a child will push on that to test its boundary. That behaviour cannot be tolerated for the good of the class. (and yes, handcuffs are over the line)

In fact your method is a non solution and more like 'do nothing' and hope they stop soon and don't wreck too much stuff. [/b][/quote]

I think this is an unworkable method. If you clear out the class room and just 'watch' every time a kid goes snakey you haven't addressed the problem at all.

Well I was working from the assumption that this was a pretty rare and wild tantrum, considering they called the cops and all, and it might deserve drastic measures to get it calmed down. If the kids go "snakey" like that on a regular basis then the school is really in bad shape.

Kids are smart, they would see through you in a NY minute. If you have 25 kids in a class, you would get at least 5 trying that technique, you would probably end up clearing the classroom and 'watching' at least once per week.

Sure their smart. They aren't crazy. You can't just "act" like that. I didn't say there wouldn't be consequences for the little girl (ie: a new school), I was suggesting a way to defuse the situation without getting John Q. Law involved.

The result is that none of the kids would get a good education, and what are the other kids doing in the hall while you idly watch a tantrum with a bemused Cosby style grin plastered on your face. I bet they aren't going to be angelic with no supervision in the hall or wherever you marshal them.

If you show a weakness, a child will push on that to test its boundary. That behaviour cannot be tolerated for the good of the class. (and yes, handcuffs are over the line)

It's a school. I would imagine there is another adult around who can watch the other kids for 5 minutes.

I didn't say the behaviour would be tolerated.

Anyhow, you don't like my suggestion. Clearly the "plead, chase, pin" method employed by that school failed. What do you think should have been done?

[V]

What a ridiculous story. Are you telling me that the school system has degraded so far that you can't even send a kid to the principal's office anymore?

And that kid was not a threat to anyone, including herself, when she was being cuffed. She was clearly done her raving, and was just pouting at her desk. Cuffing her was completely inexcusable.

Looking at the video, the teacher was clearly afraid of any lawsuits, with her hands in the air like a French salute. How hard would it have been for her to call the principal into the classroom to deal with it? I mean, that is kinda his job. It most certainly isn't the cop's job.

My solution to the problem? Let the kid do her crazy dance for a while until the principal gets to the room. Then he can deal with it as he so chooses. I know that I was scared to death of the principal when I was in kindergarten.

And how much damage was this kid really causing. Pulling a couple of papers off of a bulletin board and stomping her feet? Geez, call in the marines! That's unbearable!

[jonesy]

I don't know, I just like tearing your idea down. Additionally, I thought you might enjoy the 'bemused Cosby style grin' line.

I admit, I don't know what to do. It is nigh impossible to fix a deep rooted problem with an instant remedy.

I want to blame somebody, the parents, the teacher, the kid, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be effective either.

The kid needs some positive attention maybe. Not the 'your'e so great' and 'you are right to act out' or 'thats ok to express your feelings any old way you want' but some good old time with mom and dad where it is positive but snakey stuff isn't tolerated?? Pffft.... I dunno.

[jonesy]

DP

[badnarik]

Originally posted by transplant99@Apr 23 2005, 08:12 AM


Why not just taser and mace the kid? I mean with the fight she was putting up by just sitting in a chair, scared out of her mind, should of justified it!!

miami police tasered a 6 year old a few months ago. maybe 5 is too young

[MolsonInBothHands]

Looks like this girl should be candidate number one for that thread about how many five year olds could you take on... I would hope she was in the first wave.

While cuffing her maybe a little harsh... I am getting sick of having to pick up the slack for my kid's teachers because their time in the class room has to be spent on dealing with the behavior problems of a couple freakazoid kids. When a child starts to take swings at a teacher, even if only five years old, in my opinion there should be zero tolerance. Why should the rest of the class have to be distracted because a parent can't pick up the kid?

Then again... when people watch my kids, I tell them if they mis-behave, they can beat them like their own. I couldn't imagine my reaction if my child was destructive and abusive in the class room.

[Flame On]

There could be hundreds of reasons the kid is like that, hundreds of reasons the school reacted in such a way, hundreds of reasons the parents couldn't have stopped this and hundreds alike that the teacher was ineffective. But there's only reason for the cops handcuffing a five year-old. Stupidity. Could men not have just lead her away?
If cops cuff a five year-old for a tantrum, imagine a druken fist raised, head blown off!

[RogerWilco]

My god people, an out of control child was restrained. I would pick being restrained over the old method of a big wood paddle named Brutis any day. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill here. I hope she learned her lesson and behaves next time. A bunch of you are acting like the child was beat within an inch of her life. IMO this method was more respectfull and less harmfull then a spanking.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by RogerWilco@Apr 25 2005, 08:57 PM
My god people, an out of control child was restrained. I would pick being restrained over the old method of a big wood paddle named Brutis any day. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill here. I hope she learned her lesson and behaves next time. A bunch of you are acting like the child was beat within an inch of her life. IMO this method was more respectfull and less harmfull then a spanking.

There are other options beside the paddle or the handcuffs. Some of them even work and don't involve violence.

What lesson is it that you hope she learned? The "be afraid of cops" lesson? I'm pretty sure she learned that one.

She's 5 years old. She was in diapers like 2 years ago. Reading some of the comments here you'd think we were talking about an unruly teenager.

[RogerWilco]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Apr 25 2005, 09:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Apr 25 2005, 09:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RogerWilco@Apr 25 2005, 08:57 PM
My god people, an out of control child was restrained. I would pick being restrained over the old method of a big wood paddle named Brutis any day. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill here. I hope she learned her lesson and behaves next time. A bunch of you are acting like the child was beat within an inch of her life. IMO this method was more respectfull and less harmfull then a spanking.

There are other options beside the paddle or the handcuffs. Some of them even work and don't involve violence.

What lesson is it that you hope she learned? The "be afraid of cops" lesson? I'm pretty sure she learned that one.

She's 5 years old. She was in diapers like 2 years ago. Reading some of the comments here you'd think we were talking about an unruly teenager. [/b][/quote]
And if no one does anything abouit it then she will be an unruly teenager. I still have not seen one example put out there that would be a better solution to the problem. The lock her in the room and take away all bad objects idea is simply no better an option. As far as I could see the child was not harmed at all in the situation, other then her feelings.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by RogerWilco+Apr 25 2005, 09:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RogerWilco @ Apr 25 2005, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

There are other options beside the paddle or the handcuffs. Some of them even work and don't involve violence.

What lesson is it that you hope she learned? The "be afraid of cops" lesson? I'm pretty sure she learned that one.

She's 5 years old. She was in diapers like 2 years ago. Reading some of the comments here you'd think we were talking about an unruly teenager.

And if no one does anything abouit it then she will be an unruly teenager. [/b][/quote]
Do you think this handcuff solution is going to prevent her from becoming an unruly teenager?

[RogerWilco]

I doubt it (it would take many different variables that are not easily defined to prevent that) but it may help bring a respect for the police, having no fear of the police can turn very, very bad. All that I am saying is that the situation was not a horrid as some make it out to be. Is there a better solution? Sure there may be, but I have not seen one presented yet that would be better. I think if she was just locked in the room and that was presented to the world in video it would appear to be just as bad.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by RogerWilco@Apr 25 2005, 09:54 PM
I doubt it (it would take many different variables that are not easily defined to prevent that) but it may help bring a respect for the police, having no fear of the police can turn very, very bad. All that I am saying is that the situation was not a horrid as some make it out to be. Is there a better solution? Sure there may be, but I have not seen one presented yet that would be better. I think if she was just locked in the room and that was presented to the world in video it would appear to be just as bad.

I can't imagine it will give her respect for the police. Did you happen to hear the screaming? It was going on while the three gigantic strangers picked her up out of a chair and chained her arms together. I'm no shrink but that doesn't sound like the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

A couple of different solutions have been put out there but you don't like them obviously. What's your idea?

[RogerWilco]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Apr 25 2005, 10:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Apr 25 2005, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RogerWilco@Apr 25 2005, 09:54 PM
I doubt it (it would take many different variables that are not easily defined to prevent that) but it may help bring a respect for the police, having no fear of the police can turn very, very bad. All that I am saying is that the situation was not a horrid as some make it out to be. Is there a better solution? Sure there may be, but I have not seen one presented yet that would be better. I think if she was just locked in the room and that was presented to the world in video it would appear to be just as bad.

I can't imagine it will give her respect for the police. Did you happen to hear the screaming? It was going on while the three gigantic strangers picked her up out of a chair and chained her arms together. I'm no shrink but that doesn't sound like the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

A couple of different solutions have been put out there but you don't like them obviously. What's your idea? [/b][/quote]
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough? I don't have an idea because I have no problem with how it was handled. And no, you don't like what happend and I don't like the other alternatives shown here. I guess that puts us at a stand still.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Apr 25 2005, 09:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Apr 25 2005, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RogerWilco@Apr 25 2005, 09:54 PM
I doubt it (it would take many different variables that are not easily defined to prevent that) but it may help bring a respect for the police, having no fear of the police can turn very, very bad. All that I am saying is that the situation was not a horrid as some make it out to be. Is there a better solution? Sure there may be, but I have not seen one presented yet that would be better. I think if she was just locked in the room and that was presented to the world in video it would appear to be just as bad.

I can't imagine it will give her respect for the police. Did you happen to hear the screaming? It was going on while the three gigantic strangers picked her up out of a chair and chained her arms together. I'm no shrink but that doesn't sound like the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

A couple of different solutions have been put out there but you don't like them obviously. What's your idea? [/b][/quote]
Had she been my kid, she would have been requesting solitary confinement from the "good cops" when she got home because Daddy has no problem being bad cop. However, in all fairness, it would be interesting to know the entire history of the relationship between parent, child, teacher, and principal. If it is a first time scenario where the teacher hasn't consulted the parent or principal about behavior problems, then, yes it's over reaction. If this child has a history of such tantrums that consistently and severely interferes with the education of the other children, AND the parent refuses to acknowledge the problem and contribute to a solution then remove the child in such a way to open the eyes of the child and the parent.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by MolsonInBothHands@Apr 26 2005, 12:33 PM

Had she been my kid, she would have been requesting solitary confinement from the "good cops" when she got home because Daddy has no problem being bad cop.

That's nice.