Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[VilleN]

Here’s a thought: maybe Gaudreau refused to sign this past off season, and it actually isn’t Treliving’s fault at all. Is this possible? Could it be that Gaudreau sees an opportunity to get paid more by not signing after a ####ty COVID season… do we think Treliving is a moron? That he doesn’t understand signing a player after a statistically sub par season would be in the team’s best interest? So weird that Gaudreau wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to sign a contract that likely will be an underpayment.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Macman

But isn't Philadelphia a tough place to play for a lot of players? How do you think Johnny will do there and so far all the talk has been that's the team he wants to play for.

Eric Lindros didn't even win there, same with Jeff Carter who went on to win a cup in LA. And there's many others.

I get it's all about the most money but I'm sure players still want to win and I don't think the Flames will try and undercut Johnny here.

What I think will happen is that Andrew Mangiapane will get traded to solidify the lineup and that will make it easier to re-sign both Johnny and Tkachuk. And that's how they're going to try and win the cup.

He'll have more options than the terribly managed Flyers. Most sought after Ufa since panarin and by far the best available this year.

He's going to be coming off a 95 point season with Hart votes. Only reason his last few years seemed off was poor team construction. Carrying around Monahan and worse, I'm surprised he produced what he did. I'd be annoyed if I was him, BT wasting years of his prime like that with bad linemates and coaches.

He's going to have 20+ offers to choose from. BT's worst #### up yet.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What if they indicated they wanted to sign (which they both did publicly) but they just weren’t on the same page dollar wise off season? What if they lied? What if they just didn’t want to negotiate until the year kicked in? You act like it’s all on Treliving to do a deal.

I don’t think Chucky has been driving his price up. He doesn’t really need to anyway.

Based on his history, Treliving is a bully when it comes to his own FA. It worked some times as he got fantastic deals with Lindholm and others including Johnny last time.

But you can only be a bully so long, my guess is Treliving played hard ball and it’s about to back fire on him. Johnny will be a free man.

[McG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What if they indicated they wanted to sign (which they both did publicly) but they just weren’t on the same page dollar wise off season? What if they lied? What if they just didn’t want to negotiate until the year kicked in? You act like it’s all on Treliving to do a deal.

I don’t think Chucky has been driving his price up. He doesn’t really need to anyway.

Ok, I’ll play. What are these players worth at the end of this season versus last season exactly as they were and are contract wise? Worth less to the trade market but will cost more to sign after a terrible Flames season?

Did the GM find out how much the players wanted as soon as he could? Did he make an assessment that they would be better or worse after last season?

Lying? Negotiating? What are we talking about here? Treliving’s literal job is short term and long term asset management. You find out what the players want, decide if that fits the salary cap or not, and Flames direction or not, and move forward. If keeping them, then sign them. If not, trade.

I’ll give you a comparable, asset wise. Nurse puts up great numbers and the Oilers believed in the trajectory so they signed him. Flames had a bad season and should have signed if they believed in the players.

I think for Johnny Hockey particularly, we are going to be in the situation where we trade him at the deadline, keep him for the playoffs and lose him for nothing, or pay UFA money. None of these are good options. And if it is overpayment no matter what, just do it right away to save the distraction and keep the player.

No negotiation last off season and none during the season? Can the player make it more obvious that they are heading to UFA or similar payday? Treliving must know what sort of money the players want right?

I’ll say it again, it is literally the GM’s job to manage the short and long term management of the team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Based on his history, Treliving is a bully when it comes to his own FA. It worked some times as he got fantastic deals with Lindholm and others including Johnny last time.

But you can only be a bully so long, my guess is Treliving played hard ball and it’s about to back fire on him. Johnny will be a free man.

You are guessing like crazy. Treliving has signed a lot of his expiring RAs. To decent deals. Giordano, Backlund, for example.

[McG]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Here’s a thought: maybe Gaudreau refused to sign this past off season, and it actually isn’t Treliving’s fault at all. Is this possible? Could it be that Gaudreau sees an opportunity to get paid more by not signing after a ####ty COVID season… do we think Treliving is a moron? That he doesn’t understand signing a player after a statistically sub par season would be in the team’s best interest? So weird that Gaudreau wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to sign a contract that likely will be an underpayment.

So weird that the Flames wouldn’t know what the salary request was and decide what to do from there. So weird that the flames would bet against their player having a comeback season. How? Believe in the player and against an anomaly of a season and sign, or wait to see what happens with the risk of costing flames a lot more. If the agent has some unbelievable numbers? Trade him because you are never going to get that contract over the line without having to hurt the team.

I will say that the players are worth more today on the trade market than they were, but that scenario means that they are going to be traded and won’t be on the flames for the playoffs.

As every day goes by, the power here moves ever so slowly to the players.

[flamesgod]

Gaudreau is gonna re up with the Flames. Not worried at all.

[kukkudo]

Johnny will stay it gonna be around 80-85M on a 8 year deal I think.

[PugnaciousIntern]

I'm surprised we haven't seen Gaudreauvertime back yet

[442scotty]

Johnny waiting to see….. how much green $$$ is offered but equally important, how the new wifie enjoys her stay in Calgary

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by McG

Treliving had the exact definition of buying low this offseason and he missed it. If the players indicated that they didn’t want to sign then they should have been traded.

Isn't that the exact definition of selling low? If Treliving traded Johnny after his subpar season, he isn't going to get a whole lot back. And then Johnny light it up this season, I'm sure you would come in and complain about Treliving doesn't know what assets management is.



And, both parties have to agree to a contract. What if Johnny doesn't want to sign low?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Based on his history, Treliving is a bully when it comes to his own FA. It worked some times as he got fantastic deals with Lindholm and others including Johnny last time.

But you can only be a bully so long, my guess is Treliving played hard ball and it’s about to back fire on him. Johnny will be a free man.

Lots of guesswork in that and no surprise takes the most pessimistic view on things. Is there any correlation that you can show between a GM being effective in signing RFAs to good value and their ability to sign their free agents? Any?

Otherwise I don't know about you but i kinda want the GM of the team I follow to do all they can to mitigate the cost of RFA contracts.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I'm surprised we haven't seen Gaudreauvertime back yet

He was under a different name. Then got banned. I think.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Lots of guesswork in that and no surprise takes the most pessimistic view on things. Is there any correlation that you can show between a GM being effective in signing RFAs to good value and their ability to sign their free agents? Any?



Otherwise I don't know about you but i kinda want the GM of the team I follow to do all they can to mitigate the cost of RFA contracts.

Not with the best player on team maybe? One of the most talented players in the history of the franchise... maybe not so smart with that one. Without 13, this team is DOA. Especially since he didn't utilize the savings in an intelligent manner

Should've given him 8x 8.5m. We'd have two more years and some good will instead of likely resentment.

We make fun of previous GMs for trading past prime stars for middling return.

Well, Brad's going to lose prime Johnny for nothing. Not a great look.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Lots of guesswork in that and no surprise takes the most pessimistic view on things. Is there any correlation that you can show between a GM being effective in signing RFAs to good value and their ability to sign their free agents? Any?

Otherwise I don't know about you but i kinda want the GM of the team I follow to do all they can to mitigate the cost of RFA contracts.

We are all guessing…

I have data to show Treliving is much better with RFAs than UFAs. Would that help?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are guessing like crazy. Treliving has signed a lot of his expiring RAs. To decent deals. Giordano, Backlund, for example.

Gio was signed before the season started?
Backlund was the only significant player that was last minute. But then Brodie walked

My point still stands, he cannot play hardball with Johnny. He’ll lose.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

We are all guessing…

I have data to show Treliving is much better with RFAs than UFAs. Would that help?

No because it's irrelevant to the point you are trying to make.
Which is you have a hypothesis that him playing hard ball with RFAs reduces his ability to sign them as UFAs.
Prove it.

[VilleN]

Nm

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No because it's irrelevant to the point you are trying to make.
Which is you have a hypothesis that him playing hard ball with RFAs reduces his ability to sign them as UFAs.
Prove it.

Close but not what I meant

What I said was he can’t play hardball with UFA like RFA

Look at all the bad contracts he gave the UFAs. Same with Johnny now, give the guy what he wants or he walks

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by McG

So weird that the Flames wouldn’t know what the salary request was and decide what to do from there. So weird that the flames would bet against their player having a comeback season. How? Believe in the player and against an anomaly of a season and sign, or wait to see what happens with the risk of costing flames a lot more. If the agent has some unbelievable numbers? Trade him because you are never going to get that contract over the line without having to hurt the team.

I will say that the players are worth more today on the trade market than they were, but that scenario means that they are going to be traded and won’t be on the flames for the playoffs.

As every day goes by, the power here moves ever so slowly to the players.

Maybe there wasn’t an ask in the off season. Gaudreau could have said I am not negotiating until seasons end when I have the most leverage… what should Tre have done if this were the situation?