[News] Bettman urges new arena ASAP

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Because putting it in the NW or SW would be much better alienating quadrants of the city? Downtown is the best place to put it without a doubt.

Not for the cost.

The best place, dare I say, is by the university, where almost all other amateur facilities are located, and where the building will be used the most by amateur athletes (who are usually attending school).

Everyone will be alienated when only one thing is placed in a city. It will always be far for someone. If downtown was the best spot, the city would have done specs for that location.

[Muta]

There is a need for an inner city fieldhouse in central(ish) Calgary. That is not up for debate IMO, one is definitely needed. The original plan had it at the Foothills Athletic Park location, but West Village works as a location too.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

If this very forum's own poll is any indication, I don't think those in favour would want the city to take this to plebiscite.

Well, this very forum has many opinions from all over the world.

The poll might show different results if opinionated fans who don't live in Calgary or pay taxes in Calgary were omitted.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Actually, I bet if you tweeted Nenshi, you would have a decent chance of getting a response. I love people bitching about his childish waste of time on twitter...for every silly thing that happens there, he probably has 50 interactions with citizens that are informative and beneficial. I'm okay with him 'wasting' hours on twitter dealing with actual citizens, rather than wasting time gladhanding Bettman.

About 1 per cent of Calgarians have active twitter accounts. It's hardly vox populi. And from what I've seen, he spends half his time on twitter getting in slapping matches with other users. I was genuinely shocked to read his account. But I suppose it shows all those nerds who get in epic forum wars and have sock-puppet accounts on reddit that there's hope of a future in politics for them. It seems Calgarians think that sort of behaviour is perfectly compatible with being an elected representative.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The fieldhouse, while wanted, doesn't have funding and won't anytime soon.

The City never intended the fieldhouse to be downtown on some of the most desirable land in the city (selling that plot could probably fund the fieldhouse) and have noted that specs have been done for a field house but not downtown.

Downtown is not the best or most economical place to put a fieldhouse.

I know math is hard, but I suspect that plot of land (being contaminated and all) is worth somewhat less than $200M.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Both Molson Centre and GM Place went into bankruptcy shortly after construction resulting in losses for initial investors. Here's a synopsis by Edmonton mayor Don Iveson.

The Flames are putting up essentially $450M, which should be enough to get an arena done on its own. In my opinion, the need for a new stadium in Calgary is far greater than that for an arena. The only way a new stadium will happen is with public money. Every major outdoor stadium built in Canada in recent has been publicly funded. Stade Saputo,

I don't believe Stade Saputo received any public financing, nor did the Bell Centre go bankrupt. The fact that groups had losses on a stadium isn't a surprise. A stadium is a declining asset (like a car), you invest in it so your team can make money and eventually you need a new one.

[PeteMoss]

Here's a fun story about publically funded stadium. St.Louis city/country and Missouri spent a ton of cash to build the dome for them to play in. Today they are likely going to announce they are moving to Los Angeles.

Dave Hogg @Stareagle
Edward Jones Dome was built in 1995. Missouri still owes $72 million in stadium bonds, while St. Louis city and STL county owe $36M each.

[Daradon]

That's a bad story for sure, but the owners in Calgary aren't like that.

I don't know if I support the project right now or not. But the amount of rabble from the con side is pretty funny. A lot of it doesn't make a ton of sense. It just amounts to 'Gah! My taxes for millionaires and billionaries! Rawr!'

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I don't believe Stade Saputo received any public financing, nor did the Bell Centre go bankrupt. The fact that groups had losses on a stadium isn't a surprise. A stadium is a declining asset (like a car), you invest in it so your team can make money and eventually you need a new one.

The Quebec government put up $23 million towards Saputo, over 50% of the cost. Apologies, I meant to write forced sale for a $170 million loss on Molson Centre.

All buildings are deprecating assets - that does nothing to explain the crushing operating losses sustained during the early years of the Bell Centre.

[Flamefan1]

CTV's survey for today asks whether viewers support Nenshi's NEXT viewpoint or Bettman's. As Flames fans we need the new arena. Nenshi had no problem supporting $200 library, but has no interest in sporting events or facilities. The funding proposal will have a neglible effect on Calgary taxpayers and is badly needed. We can't let Edmonton continue to have superior sports facilities to Calgary. Nenschi's fingertrap bridge cost over $50 million so what is his huge objection to $200 million to be gained from redevelopment taxes. We need to go to CTV Calgary website and vote for Bettman (although I am not a Bettman fan).

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

CTV's survey for today asks whether viewers support Nenshi's NEXT viewpoint or Bettman's. As Flames fans we need the new arena. Nenshi had no problem supporting $200 library, but has no interest in sporting events or facilities. The funding proposal will have a neglible effect on Calgary taxpayers and is badly needed. We can't let Edmonton continue to have superior sports facilities to Calgary. Nenschi's fingertrap bridge cost over $50 million so what is his huge objection to $200 million to be gained from redevelopment taxes. We need to go to CTV Calgary website and vote for Bettman (although I am not a Bettman fan).

Wow.

Just wow.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

CTV's survey for today asks whether viewers support Nenshi's NEXT viewpoint or Bettman's. As Flames fans we need the new arena. Nenshi had no problem supporting $200 library, but has no interest in sporting events or facilities. The funding proposal will have a neglible effect on Calgary taxpayers and is badly needed. We can't let Edmonton continue to have superior sports facilities to Calgary. Nenschi's fingertrap bridge cost over $50 million so what is his huge objection to $200 million to be gained from redevelopment taxes. We need to go to CTV Calgary website and vote for Bettman (although I am not a Bettman fan).

As someone who goes to 90% of home games

No,we don't need a new hockey rink more than we need libraries

"But mom my brother has this shiny thing" is not a good enough reason to spend over 600 million dollars of our tax money during the worst recession in recent memory

[driveway]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

About 1 per cent of Calgarians have active twitter accounts. It's hardly vox populi. And from what I've seen, he spends half his time on twitter getting in slapping matches with other users. I was genuinely shocked to read his account. But I suppose it shows all those nerds who get in epic forum wars and have sock-puppet accounts on reddit that there's hope of a future in politics for them. It seems Calgarians think that sort of behaviour is perfectly compatible with being an elected representative.

I don't think you're actually paying that much attention to what's going on on Nenshi's twitter feed, but rather getting your impression of it from what gets reported by other news outlets, which, for obvious reasons, only really report on the 'slapping matches'.

I'm not on Twitter, but simply checking out his feed: https://twitter.com/nenshi and you can see that he's really mostly using it to communicate his policies, the city's policies, and to promote what's going on in and around Calgary. It actually looks quite informative and positive.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

Nenschi's fingertrap bridge cost over $50 million

Immediately discredited yourself here. Kudos.

[Roughneck]

Now Nenschi may have more than doubled the cost of the Peace Bridge, but he is getting us a library for $200. So I'd call that a win.

[taco.vidal]

I thought I posted this early, cant see my post though.

Deadspin has a piece about Bettman's Calgary visit.

http://deadspin.com/gary-bettman-get...nci-1752554428

Gary Bettman Gets Huffy While Defending The Stadium Financing Scam

The Calgary Flames, like so many sports franchises, want Canadian taxpayers to foot the bill for a new stadium complex that would cost about $890 million to build. This morning, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman went on Calgary Eyeopener to discuss the Flames’ proposal, and he didn’t enjoy getting pushed around a bit by host David Gray.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

CTV's survey for today asks whether viewers support Nenshi's NEXT viewpoint or Bettman's. As Flames fans we need the new arena. Nenshi had no problem supporting $200 library, but has no interest in sporting events or facilities. The funding proposal will have a neglible effect on Calgary taxpayers and is badly needed. We can't let Edmonton continue to have superior sports facilities to Calgary. Nenschi's fingertrap bridge cost over $50 million so what is his huge objection to $200 million to be gained from redevelopment taxes. We need to go to CTV Calgary website and vote for Bettman (although I am not a Bettman fan).

Peace bridge construction began in March 2010. Nenshi took office in Oct. 2010. 95%+ of the city's work on the project was done well before he was in office


CTV poll with only two options is 67% in favour of Nenshi. Which is pretty much bang on with the CP poll if there was no undecided option.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

CTV's survey for today asks whether viewers support Nenshi's NEXT viewpoint or Bettman's. As Flames fans we need the new arena. Nenshi had no problem supporting $200 library, but has no interest in sporting events or facilities. The funding proposal will have a neglible effect on Calgary taxpayers and is badly needed. We can't let Edmonton continue to have superior sports facilities to Calgary. Nenschi's fingertrap bridge cost over $50 million so what is his huge objection to $200 million to be gained from redevelopment taxes. We need to go to CTV Calgary website and vote for Bettman (although I am not a Bettman fan).

Ken King?

[Daradon]

One thing Bettman said on the radio yesterday that made a little bit of sense. No one would deny that it's a bad time in Calgary economy wise, which is where the majority of the disapproval comes from. And that's fine, it makes sense on the surface. But are we as bad off as Detroit? I would think most would say no. Yet, Detroit approved a 650 million dollar project in 2014 that was tied to the Joe Louis Arena.

Now, I'm not arguing this on the case of having to keep up with the Jones'. Not at all. Just because something is good for one city, doesn't mean it'll be good for the other. Or even that the first city made the right choice to begin with. But I think it shows it's not only possible, but it could be a good thing. Costs generally go down in economic slowdown, and stimulus can help an economy in slowdown. I guess it's not entirely stimulus, as most of it will be coming from taxes, but the owners are pitching in some money (which is more than you can say about most arena projects) and projects do provide jobs. Yes, they will be short term jobs, but jobs anyway for a few years.

Again, this is not to say I endorse the project. I still don't know. But there are many angles to look at. Simply saying, now is a bad time is reductive, and may not be true. It may actually be a better time.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Daradon

One thing Bettman said on the radio yesterday that made a little bit of sense. No one would deny that it's a bad time in Calgary economy wise, which is where the majority of the disapproval comes from. And that's fine, it makes sense on the surface. But are we as bad off as Detroit? I would think most would say no. Yet, Detroit approved a 650 million dollar project in 2014 that was tied to the Joe Louis Arena.

Now, I'm not arguing this on the case of having to keep up with the Jones'. Not at all. Just because something is good for one city, doesn't mean it'll be good for the other. Or even that the first city made the right choice to begin with. But I think it shows it's not only possible, but it could be a good thing. Costs generally go down in economic slowdown, and stimulus can help an economy in slowdown. I guess it's not entirely stimulus, as most of it will be coming from taxes, but the owners are pitching in some money (which is more than you can say about most arena projects) and projects do provide jobs. Yes, they will be short term jobs, but jobs anyway for a few years.

Again, this is not to say I endorse the project. I still don't know. But there are many angles to look at. Simply saying, now is a bad time is reductive, and may not be true. It may actually be a better time.

Why do people keep talking about Detroit like it's a success story. The benefits of that project haven't even come to fruition yet.