Nadal is obviously great....its just incredibly boring to watch. I mean the last 4 or 5 FO wins have all had a sense of coronation within a week of the tournament starting. It's exactly why the French don't like Nadal: He just is almost robotic in his play, and he has essentially taken any drama out of this tournament the last 4+ years. I mean he's never really even been tested in a big moment, and only lost his one match because he was injured. Greatest Ever on Clay? Yes of course. Fun to watch on Clay? Not in the slightest.
As to less than acceptable conditions, why wasn't he crying for them to stop when he was up 2 sets, 2-0? I might respect him a bit more if it was the conditions bothering him, but waiting until Djokovic has totally changed the momentum of the match just looks bad.
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Nadal is obviously great....its just incredibly boring to watch. I mean the last 4 or 5 FO wins have all had a sense of coronation within a week of the tournament starting. It's exactly why the French don't like Nadal: He just is almost robotic in his play, and he has essentially taken any drama out of this tournament the last 4+ years. I mean he's never really even been tested in a big moment, and only lost his one match because he was injured. Greatest Ever on Clay? Yes of course. Fun to watch on Clay? Not in the slightest.
As to less than acceptable conditions, why wasn't he crying for them to stop when he was up 2 sets, 2-0? I might respect him a bit more if it was the conditions bothering him, but waiting until Djokovic has totally changed the momentum of the match just looks bad.
He wasnt crying after either. But he did comment to the referee that "where was he an hour ago" when the rain wouldn't stop and that "he never decisive". He tossed him a tennis ball soaking in water. You don't play tennis under those conditions, even on clay. As per that break helping Nadal, it most likely did. But also, the first break helped Djokovic (even Djok admit it in his press conference). This is the sport.
Robotic? Boring? Did you watch the game yesterday/before yesterday? How amazing was his movement, shot selection, serve selections... Likewise, how amazing were Djokovic's movements, defending, return of serves etc. For somebody to dominate on any surface during a time when definitely 2, potentially 3 of the best of history take part in this sport speaks volumes. And only once somebody rises to the occasion and puts up a fight will you appreciate his talent a lot more.
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He wasnt crying after either. But he did comment to the referee that "where was he an hour ago" when the rain wouldn't stop and that "he never decisive". He tossed him a tennis ball soaking in water. You don't play tennis under those conditions, even on clay. As per that break helping Nadal, it most likely did. But also, the first break helped Djokovic (even Djok admit it in his press conference). This is the sport.
Robotic? Boring? Did you watch the game yesterday/before yesterday? How amazing was his movement, shot selection, serve selections... Likewise, how amazing were Djokovic's movements, defending, return of serves etc. For somebody to dominate on any surface during a time when definitely 2, potentially 3 of the best of history take part in this sport speaks volumes. And only once somebody rises to the occasion and puts up a fight will you appreciate his talent a lot more.
The way Nadal was running around to get those forhand shots early on was fantastic. Just beautiful to watch.
As far as trying to even up the field by changing the surface somehow, that's really pushing it. He won't be like this forever and it's great watching someone that good on his favorite surface.
Maybe tennis should just ban Nadal, Federer and Djokovich to even things up for the rest of the world? Since 2004 those three have won 31 out of the last 34 majors (Guadio 04 french, Safin 05 Aussie, Del Potro 09 US Open). I'm sure Andy Murray would sure love that. At least 3 of Nadal/Murray/Federer/Djokovich have been in the semi's in every major for quite awhile I think with the 4th usually losing in the quarters at worst.
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He wasnt crying after either. But he did comment to the referee that "where was he an hour ago" when the rain wouldn't stop and that "he never decisive". He tossed him a tennis ball soaking in water. You don't play tennis under those conditions, even on clay. As per that break helping Nadal, it most likely did. But also, the first break helped Djokovic (even Djok admit it in his press conference). This is the sport.
Robotic? Boring? Did you watch the game yesterday/before yesterday? How amazing was his movement, shot selection, serve selections... Likewise, how amazing were Djokovic's movements, defending, return of serves etc. For somebody to dominate on any surface during a time when definitely 2, potentially 3 of the best of history take part in this sport speaks volumes. And only once somebody rises to the occasion and puts up a fight will you appreciate his talent a lot more.
I guess when I say crying I don't mean in tears, I just mean complaining (which I always call crying). I get Nadal said "Where were you an hour ago", but if Nadal was so greatly concerned an hour prior, he would have said so but naturally, when he's in complete control of the match at the time, he probably didn't care as much as he did an hour later when he had lost control of the match. In a game that is as much mental as it is physical, he chose to raise his concerns more when the mental game was starting to go south rather than when he was in control. I think everyone would have loved to see how that match plays out without the daybreak.
As to robotic and boring, I mean that in the sense of what is the point of watching a guy whom at present, has a .980 winning percentage at the FO? There's no mystery or drama to his matches. Unless he's ailing, you can assume he will win since there is no evidence otherwise. I felt the same about Federer when he dominated. Its never any fun when it's the same thing over and over again. Its great to watch such excellence, but from a competition and excitement factor, it's really non-existent.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I guess when I say crying I don't mean in tears, I just mean complaining (which I always call crying). I get Nadal said "Where were you an hour ago", but if Nadal was so greatly concerned an hour prior, he would have said so but naturally, when he's in complete control of the match at the time, he probably didn't care as much as he did an hour later when he had lost control of the match. In a game that is as much mental as it is physical, he chose to raise his concerns more when the mental game was starting to go south rather than when he was in control. I think everyone would have loved to see how that match plays out without the daybreak.
As to robotic and boring, I mean that in the sense of what is the point of watching a guy whom at present, has a .980 winning percentage at the FO? There's no mystery or drama to his matches. Unless he's ailing, you can assume he will win since there is no evidence otherwise. I felt the same about Federer when he dominated. Its never any fun when it's the same thing over and over again. Its great to watch such excellence, but from a competition and excitement factor, it's really non-existent.
Nadal will for sure voice his opinion (especially and intelligently when he starts losing) and he has the right to considering what was happening with the weather/court. Unfortunately, you can't say the same about Djokovic because he was getting dominated fair and square earlier on in the match.
I guess if you follow tennis from a neutral perspective you have a point on all you've said.. but I am more passionate about certain players and their approach to the game. If Djok was dominating before, then he could have dominated after as well and won. Unfortunately for him, his luck at the grand slams had run out for this final.
ps i knew what you meant by crying, and i was referring to it in the same way as you. (ie complaining)
I actually enjoy watching Nadal play more on the other surfaces because it tests him a lot more. Obviously he's pretty damn comfortable at Roland Garros, I mean he does own the place after all. I suppose the one thing I want more than anything is great matches, and Nadal has been in many, but I can't think of many at the French.
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I actually enjoy watching Nadal play more on the other surfaces because it tests him a lot more. Obviously he's pretty damn comfortable at Roland Garros, I mean he does own the place after all. I suppose the one thing I want more than anything is great matches, and Nadal has been in many, but I can't think of many at the French.
This is because IIRC, Nadal has never played a 5-set match at Roland Garros. ever!
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I watch the majors for the most part but am not a huge tennis fan so what happened in 2009 (?) when he lost to Soderling? Was he injured?
Injured and tired, he had played way too many clay court tournaments in the 3-4 years that he reigned at the French. He had some knee trouble and it finally caught up to him that day.
And Soderling played the match of his life, went for everything and made everything.. the video says 61 winners.
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moon, sorry to barge in, but his parents had separated at the time too, and being very family oriented it affected him emotionally. by family oriented... he still lives with his family believe it or not. and now his parents are back together.
I guess if you follow tennis from a neutral perspective you have a point on all you've said.. but I am more passionate about certain players and their approach to the game.
this is what makes it impossible to be a neutral commentator on the game as a fan, because we're always going to have our biased viewpoint no matter how hard we try. As a Fed fan I find it impossible to cheer for Rafa under any circumstances because of the threat he poses to the slam record. It's enough to make me cheer for Nole in all these finals even though I don't like him that much. That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge Rafa's greatness, I still do, but I just don't like it very much.
that being said, I still find it somewhat annoying that the majority of Rafa's empire is built on a single surface. It's just incongruous to have a player with such an insurmountable advantage under specific conditions (clay court). Many would consider Fed to be one of the greatest grass players of all time, but it's just 37% of his majors as opposed to 63% clay for Rafa. Also his record for Masters wins is built from a disproportionate mountain of clay.
I guess it's just tough not to be bitter that someone took 5 FO titles right out of Fed's hands. Maybe that's the tennis gods balancing out those years where Fed supposedly didn't have much competition on the other surfaces...but then again I can see that as him making otherwise really good players look mediocre.
this is what makes it impossible to be a neutral commentator on the game as a fan, because we're always going to have our biased viewpoint no matter how hard we try. As a Fed fan I find it impossible to cheer for Rafa under any circumstances because of the threat he poses to the slam record. It's enough to make me cheer for Nole in all these finals even though I don't like him that much. That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge Rafa's greatness, I still do, but I just don't like it very much.
that being said, I still find it somewhat annoying that the majority of Rafa's empire is built on a single surface. It's just incongruous to have a player with such an insurmountable advantage under specific conditions (clay court). Many would consider Fed to be one of the greatest grass players of all time, but it's just 37% of his majors as opposed to 63% clay for Rafa. Also his record for Masters wins is built from a disproportionate mountain of clay.
I guess it's just tough not to be bitter that someone took 5 FO titles right out of Fed's hands. Maybe that's the tennis gods balancing out those years where Fed supposedly didn't have much competition on the other surfaces...but then again I can see that as him making otherwise really good players look mediocre.
Annoying that he's just that good on Clay? The fact he's better then everyone else on the Planet on clay is impressive enough, but to also win 2 hard court title and 2 grass titles just goes to say that he's easily one of the most well rounded players ever, despite your percentage of one surface wins.
yes, annoying to me that he's so far above and beyond anyone in history on clay. they always talk about what would happen if he met Borg in his prime at the FO, and I say Rafa would beat the living crap out of him straight sets just like he does to everyone else. I'm in awe of it but I'm still allowed to personally not enjoy it.
Rafa's career is still in progress so no sense trying pin down his ranking right now, but I say at the moment he's one of the greatest overall, just not THE GOAT until he gets close to the 16 slam record. It just feels like everyone has really short memories about what Fed has accomplished, and he doesn't get enough credit for actually being there to meet Rafa in the FO final all those years. That's just how history is recorded though...it's all raw title wins and in the end nobody will care about how one player's game matched up against another, or if one guy was in his prime while the other wasn't, etc. Probably few people will even remember or talk about Fed's ridiculous consecutive slam QF/SFs after he retires.
yes, annoying to me that he's so far above and beyond anyone in history on clay. they always talk about what would happen if he met Borg in his prime at the FO, and I say Rafa would beat the living crap out of him straight sets just like he does to everyone else. I'm in awe of it but I'm still allowed to personally not enjoy it.
Rafa's career is still in progress so no sense trying pin down his ranking right now, but I say at the moment he's one of the greatest overall, just not THE GOAT until he gets close to the 16 slam record. It just feels like everyone has really short memories about what Fed has accomplished, and he doesn't get enough credit for actually being there to meet Rafa in the FO final all those years. That's just how history is recorded though...it's all raw title wins and in the end nobody will care about how one player's game matched up against another, or if one guy was in his prime while the other wasn't, etc. Probably few people will even remember or talk about Fed's ridiculous consecutive slam QF/SFs after he retires.
You don't have to look too far as Rafa has said numerous times that Fed is the best of all time. The record of what 23 straight semifinals, the 16 grand slams thus far, and his master 1000 record is very impressive. He is just one week away from tying Sampras for longest time as number 1.
The bottom line is, whether you are a Fed, Rafa or Nole fan, these last 6 years have been a great time to watch tennis.
Another thing i want to note is that the clay season is much shorter than the hard court season. Plus you have 2 slams on hard and 1 on clay. This give an advantage to certain players, and notedly Rafa is not one of them. He has long been a clay specialist but he's learnt to adapt first to grass, then to hard. I feel you when you say Rafa stole 5 FOs from Fed... as far as Rafa fans are concerned, without Novak around Rafa may have 1 more on grass and 2 on hard. However at this time, Djoker is definitely number 1 and Rafa is definitely number 2.
The Raonic-Fed quarter on grass should be awesome, their last match was really good.... dunno if it's even on TV but if anybody catches any word on potential broadcast time for the PVR I would be grateful.
