[confirmed] Flames will go after Derek Ryan in FA

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Where do you see the problem? Anything you'd do differently?

I am not a fan of Frolik in the top 6 or Janko on the wing. I probably put Lindholm on the wing as I feel Janko should be at centre as we have been developing him there for years and his size.

I just think if this team wants more offense next year they actually need to add a top 6 forward. They sent out 38 goals and got back 26. I like the trade a lot for the future but hope they add another scoring winger for next year so Frolik can slide down to the third line.

[Toonage]

Comix: And chances are pretty good you'd see those lines with a game or two!

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Ryan is better in every metric than Stajan (especially defensive play), even going back to 2011-2012 (not Ryan, he wasn't in the league at the time, more speaking to Stajan's peak era)

I'm more concerned about term/cost than I am about effectiveness. You want strong possession guys in your bottom 6, even if they're not offensive drivers. If they were, they probably wouldn't be bottom 6.

Anything below 3.5/2 or 3/4 would be pretty optimal with the current cap level.

Man oh man. It boggles the mind how anyone can advocate for a bottom six player with such a limited track record and historically sheltered usage to be given a 3, 4 year term with dollar. You end up with another Matt Stajan or Troy Brouwer situation right after you finally get out from under one of them. If Ryan can be useful to this team at all it's next year, he's certainly not going to be at 34 or 35 years of age.

If the Flames go this route, I will be highly concerned as to what is going on when you combine that with these Reaves rumours as well.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

^ don't see how one can suggest Bennett was a bright spot last year.
Disappointing at center to start the year.
Further drop in overall production.
Produced nothing when playing in top line to end the season.

Ill buy into reasons for optimism going into this season, but last year was a train wreck for Bennett.

In my opinion

Oh, it definitely wasn't a good year. I meant it more in comparison to the other players in the bottom 6. Bennett and Jankowski were the only players to score at a 3rd line rate (albeit, bottom of the barrel 3rd line scoring rate).

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am not a fan of Frolik in the top 6 or Janko on the wing. I probably put Lindholm on the wing as I feel Janko should be at centre as we have been developing him there for years and his size.

I just think if this team wants more offense next year they actually need to add a top 6 forward. They sent out 38 goals and got back 26. I like the trade a lot for the future but hope they add another scoring winger for next year so Frolik can slide down to the third line.

My whole hope is that the Flames can ice more than one "2nd line" next year. That has to be the hope. I'm not even 100% sold on Frolik being back next year, but he does have a history of being an effective player so I don't think he's going to be as bad as he was last year if he is here. I'm definitely on board with adding another scoring winger.

Regarding Jankowski, this would also make sense to me:

Mangiapane - Backlund - Frolik
Jankowski - Ryan - Reaves

With Jankowski taking draws on the left side and Ryan taking draws on the right side.

[EldrickOnIce]

I'm failing to understand the sheltered usage part. This is exactly what your bottom 6 gets.
Flames are looking for a guy to produce with sheltered minutes.

A guy who produces without being sheltered gets 7M a year on July 1

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Nelson

-Ryan is 31 years old and only broke into the league for a small part of 15-16. Is his body breaking down like a normal 31 year old NHLers or does he have less wear and tear because he played at the UofA, overseas etc.

I find this line of reasoning to be so odd.

The guy has still been on the Earth for 31 years. It's not like he has been packaged in bubble wrap awaiting his NHL debut.

Yeah, yeah he hasn't played as much hockey games per season as an NHL, but he still would have practiced and trained on a regular basis.

Also the guys that have the most longevity in the league are usually absolute fitness buffs AKA The guys with the most wear and tear on their bodies!

Chelios for instance reportedly rode his exercise bike in the sauna.
Jagr did all kinds of stuff with weight vests and ankle weights.

So I feel the wear and tear argument is not a logical one. Change my mind.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Toonage

So let's say the Flames FA haul is

Derek Ryan
Ryan Reaves
Tobias Rieder

I would think that with Ryan and Rieder it will be one or the other, not both.

If that is the case, it would be interesting to know which one is Plan A and which is Plan B. Rieder is younger with more NHL experience and he has a history with Treliving and Maloney. Ryan put up more points last season than Rieder, has a better career points-per-game average, and is a favourite of Peters.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by getbak

I would think that with Ryan and Rieder it will be one or the other, not both.

If that is the case, it would be interesting to know which one is Plan A and which is Plan B. Rieder is younger with more NHL experience and he has a history with Treliving and Maloney. Ryan put up more points last season than Rieder, has a better career points-per-game average, and is a favourite of Peters.

Ryan is also a right hand shot who plays C and wins face offs at 55% clip.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Man oh man. It boggles the mind how anyone can advocate for a bottom six player with such a limited track record and historically sheltered usage to be given a 3, 4 year term with dollar. You end up with another Matt Stajan or Troy Brouwer situation right after you finally get out from under one of them. If Ryan can be useful to this team at all it's next year, he's certainly not going to be at 34 or 35 years of age.

If the Flames go this route, I will be highly concerned as to what is going on when you combine that with these Reaves rumours as well.

We should definitely continue to wallow in sub-mediocrity in our bottom 6 to save a few bucks rather than throw 3.5 for 2 at a good defensive player with surprising offensive numbers.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by getbak

I would think that with Ryan and Rieder it will be one or the other, not both.

If that is the case, it would be interesting to know which one is Plan A and which is Plan B. Rieder is younger with more NHL experience and he has a history with Treliving and Maloney. Ryan put up more points last season than Rieder, has a better career points-per-game average, and is a favourite of Peters.

All signs would point to Derek Ryan being a higher priority. Reider seems close to a reclamation project to me honestly.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

We should definitely continue to wallow in sub-mediocrity in our bottom 6 to save a few bucks rather than throw 3.5 for 2 at a good defensive player with surprising offensive numbers.

Again, is this true? Is Ryan a good defensive player?


He apparently gets spoon-fed offensive zone starts, and he doesn't PK. He produced well with more minutes and with having Skinner beside him, but would he produce at a decent enough clip otherwise?


Stajan was useful in the bottom lines because he became a good defensive player. Should we bring him back? Absolutely not - he needs to be upgraded. I do think that a 4th line center should also be contributing on the PK as well. If he is not a strong defensive player, what exactly will he be doing between Reaves and Brouwer?


Putting up a strong CF does not equal him being strong defensively necessarily. Again, my information is coming from a bunch of Canes fans that think he is rather useless at anything else other than putting up points. They say he is shifty and can play with talented players, but without that, he is otherwise a useless player that is both weak on the puck, and poor defensively. We can't tell what his defensive game is like from highlights, and I would love to know if what Canes fans are saying is actually true, or whether it is just bias.


One thing that stuck out for me was a couple of them agreeing that while Ryan puts up strong CF%, he apparently 'gets his head smashed in GF versus GA'.


What my concern revolves around his usage on the Flames. Yes, we need better bottom 6 guys, but if he is a guy that can't produce without playing with highly talented players, he isn't going to necessarily be an upgrade offensively in the bottom 6, and he may even become a defensive liability.


The only place I have read so far that he is strong defensively is in this thread. Are we sure he is strong defensively?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I find this line of reasoning to be so odd.

The guy has still been on the Earth for 31 years. It's not like he has been wrapped in bubble wrap awaiting his NHL debut.

Yeah, yeah he hasn't played as much hockey games per season as an NHL, but he still would have practiced and trained on a regular basis.

Also the guys that have the most longevity in the league are usually absolute fitness buffs AKA The guys with the most wear and tear on their bodies!

Chelios for instance reportedly rode his exercise bike in the sauna.
Jagr did all kinds of stuff with weight vests and ankle weights.

So I feel the wear and tear argument is not a logical one. Change my mind.

I can't remember the study that came out recently (can probably find in NY Times), but it shows that the muscles/tissues of people who do A LOT of exercise do not suffer the effects of aging (I believe the main focus of the study were those crazy 60-80 year-old road bikers I see down in Tucson , who apparently have the muscle "age" of 40-somethings). So, wear and tear is good - the problem is injuries. And as you get close to 40 it's quickness and recovery.

[Stay Golden]

Given Ryan's long path to get into the NHL, he is likely going to continue have a strong work ethic, that's a noble trait to bring with you.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

He apparently gets spoon-fed offensive zone starts, and he doesn't PK. He produced well with more minutes and with having Skinner beside him, but would he produce at a decent enough clip otherwise?

Maybe he wouldn't need to. I mean he basically had the same PPG as Ferland last year, Gaudreau and Monahan get spoon-fed offensive zone starts, and they don't PK...

Crazy Idea: Derek Ryan isn't being signed for line 3/4 and is, in fact, the replacement for Michael Ferland. He plays the complementary RW for Gaudreau and Monahan. Lindholm slots into the Tkachuk-Backlund line, Frolik slides down to provide some two-way acuman to Bennett-Jankowski.

[Ashasx]

Will Nault @Fan960Nault
Some news from our pal @reporterchris today on @Sportsnet960.
Cam Ward to CHI on 1-year deal, ~$2.5M. Carter Hutton to BUF, details unknown. Jonathan Bernier to DET on a 3-year deal.

Sounds like Paul Statsny is going to remain in WPG but they do need to move a bit of money out.

Will Nault @Fan960Nault
He also indicated that while he doesn't have any details, it does look like a natural fit for Derek Ryan in Calgary. Expect the 31-year old to officially become a member of the #Flames on Sunday.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Will Nault @Fan960Nault
Some news from our pal @reporterchris today on @Sportsnet960.
...Sounds like Paul Statsny is going to remain in WPG but they do need to move a bit of money out...

That is interesting. The Jets at present have $24 m in cap space with 15 players under contract (9F, 5D, 1G), and with pending FAs Brandon Tanev, Shawn Mathias (UFA), Matt Hendricks (UFA), Joel Armia, Marko Dano, Adam Lowry, Jake Trouba, Josh Morrissey, Toby Enström (UFA), and Connor Hellebuyck.

I think Morrissey, Trouba, Lowry, Armia and Hellebuyck are their priority signings, which all told could command up to $20 m. The Jets have historically spent only up to within $5 m of the salary cap, so it seems that they likely need to move some significant contracts to keep Stastny.

Next summer will be very interesting with Wheeler, Laine, Connor and Myers all needing new contracts. This team is going to look considerably different in 2019.

[Roof-Daddy]

I'd be happy to take Perreault from Winnipeg.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

We should definitely continue to wallow in sub-mediocrity in our bottom 6 to save a few bucks rather than throw 3.5 for 2 at a good defensive player with surprising offensive numbers.

I’m happy with almost any 2 year deal. It’s when you get beyond that I’m nervous.

[Vinny01]

I think the Jets end up trading Trouba. Similar to Hamonic, and Drouin once a trade request is public there is usually a deal down the road. I know he said he wants to sign long term but rumor is he wants $8M per.

One of the reasons I want to sign Hanifin long term now is to avoid a monster contract out of his bridge deal.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think the Jets end up trading Trouba. Similar to Hamonic, and Drouin once a trade request is public there is usually a deal down the road. I know he said he wants to sign long term but rumor is he wants $8M per.

One of the reasons I want to sign Hanifin long term now is to avoid a monster contract out of his bridge deal.

Yeah I could see that happening as well. If they can get Myers signed to a more palatable long term deal they might just send Trouba packing for a solid return.