House passes Senate health care bill

[zamler]

Originally Posted by tussery

My barber is self employed, doesn't have health insurance and doesn't need health insurance.

Never? This person plans to go through life without any unforeseen circumstances? A barber can afford major surgery, cancer treatments, organ transplants, all that good stuff?

[PIMking]

I Think a socialized system is a good thing just not this system. Enough countries around the world have it. We should be able to take a look and tweak the system for the better.

[MRCboicgy]

Nice shout out of "Baby Killer"

"You lie" says hello

[photon]

*bumps MRCbiocgy's avatar cat*

[tussery]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

So if you can't pay, what happens? How large is the fine? Do you keep getting fined until you can afford it, or what? Thrown in jail? Thrown into the Deathcamps?

Actually unless it was changed there would be jail time involved if you did not pay the fines levied on you for not having insurance.

Edit: This bill upsets me like PIMKing because like he said they could have come up with something much better. Not that it matters though the State of Texas pays for my health care.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by zamler

Never? This person plans to go through life without any unforeseen circumstances? A barber can afford major surgery, cancer treatments, organ transplants, all that good stuff?

Just what I want, A government that approved two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be in control if I can have a heart transplant.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by photon

*bumps MRCbiocgy's avatar cat*

Word

It took almost 5 years, but finally an avatar that works.

Also: Healthcare.

[bcb]

Seems to me this bill is so watered down, it won't really affect Americans much. It probably has the Canadian equivalent of taxing income trusts...relatively inconsequential but to a few individuals.

[PIMking]

if this healthcare is so good I wonder how many politicians will use it?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by PIMking

if this healthcare is so good I wonder how many politicians will use it?

Ummm, all of them. It's required.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by valo403

Ummm, all of them. It's required.

No, This crap they are shoving down our throats. Not the kick ass stuff they have now.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Just what I want, A government that approved two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be in control if I can have a heart transplant.

your government isn't in control of healthcare anymore than they are of schools or police forces. just because they fund something doesn't mean bureaucrats will make the decisions, despite what the Republicans and Fox news would like you to think

[PIMking]

I didn't go to high school in Alabama, But it's sad. so don't bring Public schools into this.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I didn't go to high school in Alabama, But it's sad. so don't bring Public schools into this.

Can I bring up a certain year-end prom in a certain county in a certain neighboring state?

[photon]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Word

It took almost 5 years, but finally an avatar that works.

Also: Healthcare.

I can fist bump on the Internet, but in real life I'm so un-cool if I tried, I'd probably trip and fall and break my leg and skid onto the road and cause a bus full of school children to crash into a tree and burst into flames.

[worth]

I not positive that this healthcare plan is sustainable. Trying to institute new programs during a recession while the country is basically bankrupt and putting the burden on the people when the government can't properly run other programs like social security just seems like suicide to me.

People want change, but you can't justify change until you take care of the existing problems. Unfortunatley, they haven't sufficiently taken care of these problems to start changing things in my opinion.

[Rathji]

I do understand, the government is taking away your god given right to ignore your health problems in the way you see fit. If you honestly don't think your life is worth that kind of money then no one will be able to convince you otherwise, and I won't be the one to try.

I know when my dad died of cancer though, he probably used in 6 months enough services to eat up 2 lifetimes worth of health care premiums.

edit: I do support the notion that the health care system as it stands won't be able to support this plan in the long term. That doesn't mean the plan is not good though, it means the health care system isn't.

[Canuck-Hater]

Its about damn time. These republicans are a stubborn bunch, this system will work better for sure.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

So if you can't pay, what happens? How large is the fine? Do you keep getting fined until you can afford it, or what? Thrown in jail? Thrown into the Deathcamps?

I don't know the details, but it is a system based on what Massachusetts has, and having lived in MA, I can tell you how it works there. I actually just filed my MA tax return a couple of weeks ago, so I remember this pretty well.

1. Lower income persons receive subsidized health insurance.
2. When you file taxes, you must show that you were insured for the entire year. If you a) were uninsured AND b) made enough money that you could have afforded health insurance (as per an income test--I'm not sure what the threshold is) you are assessed a penalty which is added to your tax due. The penalty is about 300 dollars--significant, but much lower than the annual cost of health insurance, honestly. You can avoid the penalty one of three ways:
a. You were a part-year resident.
b. You have religious reasons for not obtaining health insurance. (I'm not making that up. I have no earthly idea what that could mean.)
c. Your income is beneath a certain threshold. (I wasn't anywhere near it, so I'm not sure what it is)
3. Employers are also required to contribute part of the cost of health insurance, if the company has more than 10 employees. This is pretty complicated, but in effect an employer meets the test if about a quarter of their employees are insured.
4. Family plans are required to offer coverage to children.

It's not a terrible system, for all the hand-wringing and pants-pissing that conservatives do over the "penalty." Obviously a single-payer system would be better.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Okay, I'm trying to calm down so I can post.

1. we get taxed more for the next four years. This "insurance" wont start for four years.

2. 4 years of tax dollars we hope the government doesn't spend a dime of it on other crap.

3. This isn't free insurance per say. We have a choice on private or Purchasing Obama Care. We still get taxed and have to purchase one or the other. If we don't purchase either we get fined.

So, say I get taxed $40 a month for this and Obama care is $400/MO and Private is $410/mo and I still can't afford it I get fined. So in reality Obama care will cost $440/mo. It's not socialized like Canadian system.

does that shed light on it?

Good thing you don't live in Canada then. Our end tax rate, after all is said and done is much higher than the US (I believe double, someone correct me if I'm wrong), but I will gladly forfeit the money knowing if I get cancer, or some other terminal malady, I will have a fighting chance, and my HMO won't tell me to eat s#%t because I forgot to disclose a broken arm when I was 12 years old or a wart on my foot when I was 9.

And speaking of broken bones, a friend of mine got a $14,000 bill for breaking his leg skiing in Montana some years back. It was hilarious the breakdown on it. They had individual T3's billed out at $71 bucks a piece. Here they give you a sample pack, and if your nurse is really nice, she'll give you a couple packs for the road for "future" considerations. And at the end of the day, it really isn't more expensive anyway. I talked to a guy that works at a VW Dealership in NY once, and he pays $600 a month, and that is after tax dollars, for basically 1/2 the coverage I get under Ab. Health care, and my benefits package at work... and he thinks that's an awesome deal. He was shocked that I got 80% of my dental covered, where I was po'd I have to pay 20%.

Socialism is one thing I cannot stand, but when it comes to medicine... all Hail Karl Marx.