Dr. David Swann

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I'm not sure either... you seem to be just as opposed to Swann as the right-leaners around here.

I really wanted to see a Liberal leader who was really just a Conservative wolf in the fold... and convert them into what the PCs should be. A pragmatic, socially neutral, urban focused, fiscal conservative party... not an ideological, socially conservative, rural focused, fiscally confused party like what the PCs have become.

DITTO

I would love to vote for someone other than the PC party rep, in order to provide an effective opposition, but I just can't see voting for a Swann lead Liberal party. Way to far left for my tastes.

They are definitely going in the wrong direction.

[Bobblehead]

Perhaps if Swann swings the prov Liberals to the left, that will leave room in the centre for a new party with some relevance.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Perhaps if Swann swings the prov Liberals to the left, that will leave room in the centre for a new party with some relevance.

Thats my bet... the conditions are perfect for a dynasty change. However, none of the existing parties seem anywhere close to achieving that. Maybe someone with some deep pockets at their disposal will start mobilizing to take advantage of this.

[Cowboy89]

The Alberta Liberals really fail to understand Alberta. Contrary to Liberal belief Albertan's don't vote PC because they're brainwashed into group think. Albertan's hold their nose and vote PC because deep down they don't trust the Liberals or NDP to manage the province without hijacking our economy. A majority of us have carved out prosperous lives in this province that are simply unattainable anywhere else in this country at any time. Beating around a 'we're going to change the way you live and how you do business and we're going to call you stupid sheeple when you don't vote for us' doesn't really make these people want to get up and vote Liberal. The whole 'Albertan voters don't get it' arrogance has to stop. The furthest left this province is willing to go is center-right relative to the rest of the country. Proposing policies that belong in the BC NDP policy book and then getting mad at Albertans for being idiots is no way to get democratically elected. David Swann will continue this.

The formula to victory here is to come out and support the 10% flat tax rate, support competative oil and gas royalty rates that are designed to keep the industry healthy and people in high paying jobs, come up with a health plan that doesn't invlove simply blindly injecting cash, and is unafraid to look outside the 'government pays, government delivers, pro-union' box if that's what's necessary to make things more cost and quality efficient. Then while delivering this platform attack the PC's as being an old tired party with many empty suits only in the game for the sake of power (I imagine that there's a boatload of corruption examples to uncover). Until then I don't vote Liberal, and I imagine I'm not alone on this.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The Alberta Liberals really fail to understand Alberta. Contrary to Liberal belief Albertan's don't vote PC because they're brainwashed into group think. Albertan's hold their nose and vote PC because deep down they don't trust the Liberals or NDP to manage the province without hijacking our economy. A majority of us have carved out prosperous lives in this province that are simply unattainable anywhere else in this country at any time. Beating around a 'we're going to change the way you live and how you do business and we're going to call you stupid sheeple when you don't vote for us' doesn't really make these people want to get up and vote Liberal. The whole 'Albertan voters don't get it' arrogance has to stop. The furthest left this province is willing to go is center-right relative to the rest of the country. Proposing policies that belong in the BC NDP policy book and then getting mad at Albertans for being idiots is no way to get democratically elected. David Swann will continue this.

The formula to victory here is to come out and support the 10% flat tax rate, support competative oil and gas royalty rates that are designed to keep the industry healthy and people in high paying jobs, come up with a health plan that doesn't invlove simply blindly injecting cash, and is unafraid to look outside the 'government pays, government delivers, pro-union' box if that's what's necessary to make things more cost and quality efficient. Then while delivering this platform attack the PC's as being an old tired party with many empty suits only in the game for the sake of power (I imagine that there's a boatload of corruption examples to uncover). Until then I don't vote Liberal, and I imagine I'm not alone on this.

Yep... in a nutshell, Albertans no longer love the PCs... they simply hate everyone else. Until a new palatable choice emerges, the regressive conservatives will enjoy massive majorities with paper thin policy and shocking incompetence.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Perhaps if Swann swings the prov Liberals to the left, that will leave room in the centre for a new party with some relevance.

I really don't know what provincial Liberals are trying to do, but don't we already have a really unsuccessful NDP party in this province? Why is the majority Liberal membership trying to make the Liberal Party in to the NDP Right party?... because I suspect, that under Swann's leadership, thats what it will become.

... and don't we have enough political parties as it is? Do we really need another party?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

OK I re-read this and Nehkara's post. What is it that I would try to have you believe? (I'm missed your point here).

Sorry if it wasn't clear and it was more of a touch in cheek comment then anything else, but is was in reference to you would have us believe that there is more support for left wing/Liberal policies in Alberta than there really is.

The comment had to do with what Nehkara wanted in a party moreso than anything to do with Swann.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I really don't know what provincial Liberals are trying to do, but don't we already have a really unsuccessful NDP party in this province? Why is the majority Liberal membership trying to make the Liberal Party in to the NDP Right party?... because I suspect, that under Swann's leadership, thats what it will become.

... and don't we have enough political parties as it is? Do we really need another party?

The Liberal Party will never be viable with that name. I agree that we don't need more parties. What we need is another VIABLE choice. With due apologies to First Lady, right now I only see one party viable to Albertans, there is room for more than that.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

Sorry if it wasn't clear and it was more of a touch in cheek comment then anything else, but is was in reference to you would have us believe that there is more support for left wing/Liberal policies in Alberta than there really is.

The comment had to do with what Nehkara wanted in a party moreso than anything to do with Swann.

Don't worry, I knew it was going to be tongue in cheek, but just missed the point! I'm sure that you were going to say something about my wanting a communist utopia and I would come back and say that you are just right of Hitler/Mussolini on the political scale! (I take no offense, and just find the whole thing entertaining!

I do think that a full centrist party will come up the middle here. I don't know why it should have to be someone with deep pockets though. From the other threads around here it seems like the parties should be able to garner enough in donations to run campaigns and hire staff. Surely those of you advocating for this will have no problem cutting a cheque when this party surfaces...

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

The Liberal Party will never be viable with that name. I agree that we don't need more parties. What we need is another VIABLE choice. With due apologies to First Lady, right now I only see one party viable to Albertans, there is room for more than that.

Agreed. I see your point. I also see the WAP being further right than the PC's. Thats not what I want.

I want a party kind of like the PC's.... but different.
The PC's have been in power too long. Time for a change. Maybe the Alberta equivalent to the Saskatchewan Party?

[LChoy]

From the Health perspective, if I recall correctly, Swann was a former Medical Officer of Health for Alberta. He stood up to the government over an issue, and was replaced for it. He joined the Liberal ranks soon after that.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by moon

Sorry if it wasn't clear and it was more of a touch in cheek comment then anything else, but is was in reference to you would have us believe that there is more support for left wing/Liberal policies in Alberta than there really is.

Well, you know, on the other hand, I really think Alberta has more of a socialist streak than we like to admit. However, its really more of the typical Canadian greed-based entitlement socialism. The support for "Our Fair Share" was absolutely baffling. If Alberta was as fiscally conservative as we think, Stelmach would have been decimated over the words "royalty review," with a few WRA MLAs voted in for their fiscal conservatism alone, and to act as a check on a PC minority government.

I think Alberta has enough of a leftist streak for a guy like Taft to have succeeded, had he not been so disasterous in his showings. Swann I think is way too left even for the closet lefties in Alberta.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

Don't worry, I knew it was going to be tongue in cheek, but just missed the point! I'm sure that you were going to say something about my wanting a communist utopia and I would come back and say that you are just right of Hitler/Mussolini on the political scale! (I take no offense, and just find the whole thing entertaining!

I do think that a full centrist party will come up the middle here. I don't know why it should have to be someone with deep pockets though. From the other threads around here it seems like the parties should be able to garner enough in donations to run campaigns and hire staff. Surely those of you advocating for this will have no problem cutting a cheque when this party surfaces...

I wasn't clear, I apologize. When I said deep pockets at their disposal, I didn't mean the new party's creators exclusively... I just meant an ability to raise enough funds to run a serious and competent campaign.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I wasn't clear, I apologize. When I said deep pockets at their disposal, I didn't mean the new party's creators exclusively... I just meant an ability to raise enough funds to run a serious and competent campaign.

I think that if a party has a chance at government (as in a realistic chance to form government) than donors will donate. The federal Liberals actually raise a fair amount of money in Calgary, because the donors recognize that they will be back in power, eventually.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that if a party has a chance at government (as in a realistic chance to form government) than donors will donate. The federal Liberals actually raise a fair amount of money in Calgary, because the donors recognize that they will be back in power, eventually.

Once they are established, yeah. What they need is enough initial support to get them on the political radar right away and enough for people to take them seriously (big backers and established names as supporters/members)... perhaps a female leader who can allege sexism to get herself into the provincial debate too.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Once they are established, yeah. What they need is enough initial support to get them on the political radar right away and enough for people to take them seriously (big backers and established names as supporters/members)... perhaps a female leader who can allege sexism to get herself into the provincial debate too.

Agreed. I know that you're joking, but a female leader is a kiss of death IMO.

I think that the leader is the most important issue for a new party though. It would be great to convince a guy like Dinning or maybe a Peter Lougheed to do something (not necessarily lead, but be involved) for credibility sake.

I do hope that something comes around soon though. If they wait until the eve of the next campaign its too late.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

Agreed. I know that you're joking, but a female leader is a kiss of death IMO.

I think that the leader is the most important issue for a new party though. It would be great to convince a guy like Dinning or maybe a Peter Lougheed to do something (not necessarily lead, but be involved) for credibility sake.

I do hope that something comes around soon though. If they wait until the eve of the next campaign its too late.

Pretty much form a party with the blessing of Manning, Lougheed, Dinning and some respected academics and community leaders, yep.

Yeah, I'm still annoyed that May was invited to the federal debate with no elected MPs. Maybe a good leader could get in with these heavy-hitters demanding their presence there.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Pretty much form a party with the blessing of Manning, Lougheed, Dinning and some respected academics and community leaders, yep.

Yeah, I'm still annoyed that May was invited to the federal debate with no elected MPs. Maybe a good leader could get in with these heavy-hitters demanding their presence there.

Well I'm not a big fan of the politics of Manning, but Dinning on the other hand is basically a red-Tory and that is kind of where I would hope a new party would sit. Same opinion from me on Lougheed, as he is not as far right as the current PC's.

I just think that some more centrist personalities have to come out of the woodwork to get a new party involved. Everything I've heard of that is going on (and even some things I've attended) in this vein are more leftist, and just have no chance whatsoever!

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that if a party has a chance at government (as in a realistic chance to form government) than donors will donate. The federal Liberals actually raise a fair amount of money in Calgary, because the donors recognize that they will be back in power, eventually.

A lot of corps support all the credible parties in any case, though not all to the same extent.

With a few high profile people comes their financial backing, as I think you've suggested.

And to your earlier question I'd happily chip in - provided the new party actually spoke to my needs. Creating an alternative that doesn't get painted into one ideological corner or another is easier said then done.

Interesting stuff though.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well I'm not a big fan of the politics of Manning, but Dinning on the other hand is basically a red-Tory and that is kind of where I would hope a new party would sit. Same opinion from me on Lougheed, as he is not as far right as the current PC's.

I just think that some more centrist personalities have to come out of the woodwork to get a new party involved. Everything I've heard of that is going on (and even some things I've attended) in this vein are more leftist, and just have no chance whatsoever!

Manning would be essential to convince the average Conservative voter that the PCs have lost their way and the best fiscal conservative party would be this new one. Having Manning in concert with Dinning, Lougheed and some notable moderates and fiscal conservatives would show that this party not only means business, but won't go all evangelical, puritan or rural.