Wealthy people tend to speed more

[Cube Inmate]

Claeren

I agree with what both you and Cow have to say... speed limits on some roads in Calgary are ridiculous, but you can't protest that fact without running the risk of getting caught and paying the fine.

Just another response to your rant...

Originally posted by Claeren@Aug 10 2004, 06:25 AM
That is before looking at improvements in road/ interchange/intersection design, advanced road materials and markings (surprising if you look into it), tire manufacture, glass manufacture, street light proliferation, etc.

As for improved road design, vehicle capabilities, etc...the transportation engineers have not caught up with those facts. They're still working with manuals that are 30 years old, which INSIST that a road X metres wide, with an R metre radius of curvature must have a speed limit of exactly 80 km/h even though it's safe up to 120 km/h. They literally have a manual which defines the ideal speed limit on every type of road, in every possible setting...and not one of them would ever allow his common sense to override the manual and increase the limit (decrease it, sure!). That, and they have the attitude that people are going to break the laws, so the laws have to be ridiculously restrictive in the first place!

A situation in my old neighbourhood taught me how stupid their methods are: There are a bunch of 4-way stops with painted crosswalks, and I guess somebody complained that people were stopping IN the crosswalks (of those few people who actually do stop for a 4-way). Rather than enforce the rules as they're written (stop before the crosswalk), the city decided to paint additional stop lines 4 feet ahead of the crosswalks! What the hell is an extra dollop of slippery paint going to do!!?!? You've got to educate the drivers!! But that's their way of dealing with problems...if people don't follow the rules, make more restrictive rules!

Hmmm...I didn't intend for this to turn into a rant, but it did!

[Bill Bumface]

Claeren summed up my thoughts pretty much exactly. Once they put all of the interchanges and extra lanes on crowchild I was just waiting for the speed limit to be increased, but it wasn't. So the result? Everyone drives 90-110 on there in the morning.

The other funny thing I noticed, just coming back from BC on Sunday, is how fast Alberta drivers go compared to BC drivers. I think this is a product of many factors:

Not that many wealthy drivers or as many new cars in interior BC

Traffic enforcement is way stricter/more painful in BC.

If you go 90Km/h in a 50Km/h construction zone in the middle of the night when no one is working at it, you could face a $700 ticket. You will get pulled over for going 105 in a 90 in BC, where as in Alberta I've seen cops just flash the lights for people doing 90 in the 70 wildlife zone. As soon as you get out of the mountains, the flow of traffic is about 130-135.

Basically my thoughts are let people have at it on the highways (ie going 120 on deerfoot isn't that big of a deal in light traffic. Go over 130, and you should get pulled for it), but go for strict enforcement in residentials. I see way too many people going along at 70km/h and forgetting to stop for the little kid waiting to cross the street to his house.

[kdogg]

From experience:

49 km/h over = $329 ticket

FYI
________
Live sex

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by kdogg@Aug 10 2004, 05:54 PM
From experience:

49 km/h over = $329 ticket

FYI

Cop did you a favour. You were prob going 50+ over the limit. Since he lowered it to 49, you don't have have a mandatory court appearance. lower fine, and subsequently lower demerits

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate+Aug 10 2004, 10:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cube Inmate @ Aug 10 2004, 10:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Claeren

I agree with what both you and Cow have to say... speed limits on some roads in Calgary are ridiculous, but you can't protest that fact without running the risk of getting caught and paying the fine.

Just another response to your rant...

<!--QuoteBegin-Claeren@Aug 10 2004, 06:25 AM
That is before looking at improvements in road/ interchange/intersection design, advanced road materials and markings (surprising if you look into it), tire manufacture, glass manufacture, street light proliferation, etc.

As for improved road design, vehicle capabilities, etc...the transportation engineers have not caught up with those facts. They're still working with manuals that are 30 years old, which INSIST that a road X metres wide, with an R metre radius of curvature must have a speed limit of exactly 80 km/h even though it's safe up to 120 km/h. They literally have a manual which defines the ideal speed limit on every type of road, in every possible setting...and not one of them would ever allow his common sense to override the manual and increase the limit (decrease it, sure!). That, and they have the attitude that people are going to break the laws, so the laws have to be ridiculously restrictive in the first place!

A situation in my old neighbourhood taught me how stupid their methods are: There are a bunch of 4-way stops with painted crosswalks, and I guess somebody complained that people were stopping IN the crosswalks (of those few people who actually do stop for a 4-way). Rather than enforce the rules as they're written (stop before the crosswalk), the city decided to paint additional stop lines 4 feet ahead of the crosswalks! What the hell is an extra dollop of slippery paint going to do!!?!? You've got to educate the drivers!! But that's their way of dealing with problems...if people don't follow the rules, make more restrictive rules!

Hmmm...I didn't intend for this to turn into a rant, but it did! [/b][/quote]
Wow, I think it's rather Ironic that someone with Dilbert as their avatar doesn't understand the concept of a safety factor. Sure road planners have books that tell them that such and such a radius is safe at X speed. Just like I have a book that tells me that a certain diameter of coil tubing is good to a certain load, and guess what, they have safety factors built in too. There are safety standards that everyone must follow. A road planner can't just decide to change the speed limit because it's safe at 120 instead of 80, he would loose his job if he did.

And as for the stop line. The problem is that people don't understand to not stop in a crosswalk. But guess what, people do understand to stop at a big white line that says stop. People are dumb, it's easier to paint a line than it is to try to reason with stupid people.

[kdogg]

Originally posted by albertGQ+Aug 10 2004, 01:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (albertGQ @ Aug 10 2004, 01:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-kdogg@Aug 10 2004, 05:54 PM
From experience:

49 km/h over = $329 ticket

FYI

Cop did you a favour. You were prob going 50+ over the limit. Since he lowered it to 49, you don't have have a mandatory court appearance. lower fine, and subsequently lower demerits[/b][/quote]
No, he wasn't a nice fellow.

He initially told me i was going to loose my lisence, then came back with a ticket. I was just lucky
________
Erica_Lopez

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz@Aug 10 2004, 01:22 PM
Wow, I think it's rather Ironic that someone with Dilbert as their avatar doesn't understand the concept of a safety factor. Sure road planners have books that tell them that such and such a radius is safe at X speed. Just like I have a book that tells me that a certain diameter of coil tubing is good to a certain load, and guess what, they have safety factors built in too. There are safety standards that everyone must follow. A road planner can't just decide to change the speed limit because it's safe at 120 instead of 80, he would loose his job if he did.

And as for the stop line. The problem is that people don't understand to not stop in a crosswalk. But guess what, people do understand to stop at a big white line that says stop. People are dumb, it's easier to paint a line than it is to try to reason with stupid people.

I said that badly... of course a section of highway with certain ROC, or with limited visibility, or whatever is going to be unsafe at certain speeds. Everybody knows that the speed limit does not reflect what that speed is though!

Speed limits around here are not related to that safety limit...they're based on road classifications, political direction, and statistics about driver behaviour. It's social engineering, not engineering. Alberta's road design manual states something like "15% of drivers tend to exceed the posted speed limit by 6 to 10 km/h." I have a problem with basing speed limits on this kind of statistic because it's not valid for any given road without verification. There's too much reliance on these generalizations and not enough attention paid to the characteristics of the individual road. The Hwy 2A speed limit change was probably done for either financial reasons (ticket$) or because the road classification suddenly changed and the manual said it should now be an 80 km/h zone....either way, it's ridiculous.

As for the stop lines, they don't say "stop" on them...they're just big, slippery white lines that people still ignore. The problem I have with them is that even though I always stopped legally before the crosswalk, that's now illegal...I have to stop 4 feet further back. The intersections weren't designed to have the stop line that much further back -- several of them have bushes obstructing the view of the intersection from there. As with speed limits though, it wasn't a case of designing with sound principles in mind...they simply made a decision based on the idea that more conservative rules might make the violations less problematic.

I think it's a fundamentally flawed principle to apply rules in a certain way because you know people are going to break them. Everybody knows they aren't based on safety, and that just makes people respect the law less and more likely to break it.