Justice for an idiot driver

[Frank the Tank]

It is so easy to tell who has kids and who doesn't when driving threads come up.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by Orz

That is such an incredible ass-backwards way of thinking...

how so?
If you are going slower than the flow of traffic, you are just as dangerous on the road as someone that excessively speeding.

If you stay with the flow (be it 10, or 15 over the posted limit), you are fine.

[Regorium]

In Europe, I hear some roads do a adaptive speed limit system based on the road conditions. That needs to be done here. At 3am, doing 130 on deerfoot is not endangering anyone. At 3pm? Absolutely you are.

Going under the speed limit is absolutely worse than speeding. If you're doing 80 on deerfoot, you are endangering many many more people than the guy that's doing 120. For the guy doing 120, he's only endangering himself. For you that's doing 80, every single person that comes up behind you must make a pass and endangering themselves due to the speed difference of the cars in your lane and the cars in the other lanes.

[llama64]

I once had an argument with a room-mate of mine over driving behavoir. He was the typical punk who drove a Honda civic hatchback and loved weaving in and around all traffic. The drive was a burden that had to be defeated at all possible speed. He didn't go at crazy speeds but he did spend an awful amount of effort trying to get around traffic.

The argument that I had with him was that all that effort raised the danger level considerably while the benefit was negligible. So, to settle it, one night we headed out to a movie. We each drove our own car (in my case, a Chrysler Minivan... yeah, chicks loved it). The route was from the top of Coach Hill down to Chinook Center. I drove relatively conservatively, never exceeding the speed limit by more then 5km/h and kept the lane changes down to a minimum. My friend continued his rather jumpy style of weaving.

In the end, we ended up at the turn off into chinook with 1 car inbetween us. I had a good laugh over that one.

[ken0042]

Something I heard once- "The one thing we all have in common is we all have above average driving skills."

It's good food for thought. How often have you heard somebody say "yeah, my driving sucks."

For me the biggest issue is driver education and training. It boggles my mind that a 15 minute test I took when I was 16 entitles me to drive for the rest of my life.

In busy traffic, anybody who is not driving with the speed of the rest of the traffic presents a hazzard. Be it too slow or too fast; both have different issues that affect safety. Myself, I quite often speed on freeways, but I almost never speed in residential areas.

[Burninator]

Some of you are forgetting that speeding is all relative when talking in terms of safety. I would be hard pressed to belief that the majority of everyone on the road is driving 10kph under the limit. Not including gridlock of course. I would say that everyone pretty much drives between the limit and 10kph over. Of course that is what I perceive the average to be, but that is not always the case. Sometimes when driving with a group of cars, everyone will be going 10 kph under, or sometimes, especially on Deerfoot up to 20kph over.

So if the majority of cars on a road are travelling 20kph over and the "safe" driver is travelling 10kph under the limit. That is a difference of 30kph between cars. So the cars travelling faster have to avoid the slower car. Which, I would say, is endangering other cars on the road.

I am not advocating speeding, I am saying the circumstances are what dictate safety (within reason). I am trying to bring some of you back to the reality of the roads. Sometimes you are driving with slow pokes and sometimes you are driving with heavy foots. If everyone on the road around you is speeding would you think to yourself, "It will be a lot safer for me and everyone around me if I slow down even more."?

[rockstar]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Going under the speed limit is absolutely worse than speeding. If you're doing 80 on deerfoot, you are endangering many many more people than the guy that's doing 120. For the guy doing 120, he's only endangering himself. For you that's doing 80, every single person that comes up behind you must make a pass and endangering themselves due to the speed difference of the cars in your lane and the cars in the other lanes.

The two points I underlined are just plain wrong. I don't know how you can say that.

Completely wrong. I don't know what else to say.

[Orz]

Originally Posted by arsenal

how so?
If you are going slower than the flow of traffic, you are just as dangerous on the road as someone that excessively speeding.

If you stay with the flow (be it 10, or 15 over the posted limit), you are fine.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do believe that slow drivers can present a danger to others around them. But with that said, it's the notion that it's best to counter slow / bad driving by speeding; that's what I find rediculous.

[REDVAN]

This is such a strong issue I am not even going to give my opinion anymore. People will make more personal attacks, like me being a lowest common denominator. Duh.

Burninator- I don't speed in playground zones, nor construction zones. Those two really piss me off, when people are zooming in those two places. I bet all these guys who are thinking I am the scum of the earth for speeding on Deerfoot are the same 50 year olds I see going 80 in a construction zone when it says 50. They are the pot calling the kettle black. And speeding in construction and playgrounds is worse than on Deerfoot and highways. No arguments allowed.

Ken, yes everyone does think they are a good driver.

And rockstar, it is true that slow drivers can be worse than speeding, especially if they are a hinderance to other vehicles on the road. Regorium was speaking in the general case, and what he said was completely true.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

It is so easy to tell who has kids and who doesn't when driving threads come up.

Very true Frank. I don't have kids but I understand that in the eye's of every child's parents their kid(s) are the most precious things on Earth and that everything possible to make them safe should occur. Thus speeders are always a sore spot with parents.

To add to the 'young asshat' conversation I might have to add that the only offenders worse than the 'young asshat driving a pimped out Honda' is the middleaged man driving his male menopause vehicle. This group of people is far worse because A) They're driving a hot car and no one buys a hot car to drive within the speed limit B) They can afford the speeding ticket should it happen C) If they get a few speeding tickets then their insurance would only increase to the level of a safe 22 year old driver and they still have an easier time affording that too. and most important of all D) The reason why they have a male menopause car in the first place is a silly attempt at recapturing some sense of self satisfaction not recieved in any other component of their life. Speeding by other people in their hot car somehow gives them an arena where they can feel better than other people.

[rockstar]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

And rockstar, it is true that slow drivers can be worse than speeding, especially if they are a hinderance to other vehicles on the road. Regorium was speaking in the general case, and what he said was completely true.

I don't disagree with that whatsoever.

But what Regorium said was this:

• Going under the speed limit is absolutely worse than speeding.

Absolutely worse. He is stating that in 100% of situations, speeding is safer than going under the speed limit. Yes, going under the limit can be dangerous, no doubt about it. But to say that going under the limit is absolutely more dangerous than speeding is completely false.

And:

• If you're doing 80 on deerfoot, you are endangering many many more people than the guy that's doing 120. For the guy doing 120, he's only endangering himself.

Also totally incorrect. For the guy doing 120, not only is he endangering himself, but in the event that he crashes into another vehicle/other vehicles, and not just the ditch where nobody else is hit, then he's absolutely endangering everyone else around him. And quite frankly, if you crash your car on Deerfoot at most times of day, you'll be taking someone out with you.

That's the issue I took with the comments.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by rockstar

The two points I underlined are just plain wrong. I don't know how you can say that.

Completely wrong. I don't know what else to say.

I don't think he articulated it well... but there is some truth to that. It is just as dangerous to be going slower than the flow than it is going faster. At 80, everyone is a projectile going 20km/h faster... at 120, that person is a projectile for everyone else.

Essentially, one should always be going with the flow of traffic... whether thats 50 or 120. If one isn't willing to at very least drive the speed limit (in optimal conditions) they should not be on that road because they are becoming a hazard to the other drivers (or at very least, staying in the slow moving lane).

[Cube Inmate]

Out of curiousity, is there any time and place where an average Joe can take his car (whether it's a POS or a replacement penis) and drive it to its limits? E.g., is there a racetrack that opens things up for people off the street to enjoy their cars?

[rockstar]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I don't think he articulated it well... but there is some truth to that. It is just as dangerous to be going slower than the flow than it is going faster. At 80, everyone is a projectile going 20km/h faster... at 120, that person is a projectile for everyone else.

Essentially, one should always be going with the flow of traffic... whether thats 50 or 120. If one isn't willing to at very least drive the speed limit (in optimal conditions) they should not be on that road because they are becoming a hazard to the other drivers (or at very least, staying in the slow moving lane).

Absolutely. See my above post.

[Kerplunk]

Heh...some of these posts sound like they came from the guy on Canada's Worst Driver..."Faster is safer"...until he smacks into everything on the course (Sean McConnell, I think). There are reasons for speed limits in many area's, so I follow them.

Anyway, here's one. Going out to the cabin this past weekend, doing 120 on the Trans-Canada (not me driving). This guy on a motorcyle zips past us probably doing 160-170. Didn't even see him come up on us. 20 minutes later we pass him, with the RCMP writing him a ticket and the guy complaining through it all. Made my day.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Very true Frank. I don't have kids but I understand that in the eye's of every child's parents their kid(s) are the most precious things on Earth and that everything possible to make them safe should occur. Thus speeders are always a sore spot with parents.

To add to the 'young asshat' conversation I might have to add that the only offenders worse than the 'young asshat driving a pimped out Honda' is the middleaged man driving his male menopause vehicle. This group of people is far worse because A) They're driving a hot car and no one buys a hot car to drive within the speed limit B) They can afford the speeding ticket should it happen C) If they get a few speeding tickets then their insurance would only increase to the level of a safe 22 year old driver and they still have an easier time affording that too. and most important of all D) The reason why they have a male menopause car in the first place is a silly attempt at recapturing some sense of self satisfaction not recieved in any other component of their life. Speeding by other people in their hot car somehow gives them an arena where they can feel better than other people.

Agreed 100%. I dunno about some people, but when I was 16... my car wasn't exactly slow, but I sure as hell could not pull some of the things these 40-somethings can and do in their Porsche/BMW/Mustang GT/Mercedes/Viper/Fully Loaded GMC etc... physically or psychologically. Screwing up was something I could ill afford. Photo Radar tickets come out of petty cash for the guy in the $50k+ car, and their insurance goes up marginally for every offense ticket.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by rockstar

Absolutely. See my above post.

Yeah, I just saw that after I posted mine.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Out of curiousity, is there any time and place where an average Joe can take his car (whether it's a POS or a replacement penis) and drive it to its limits? E.g., is there a racetrack that opens things up for people off the street to enjoy their cars?

Race City has Secret Street every Friday night.

http://www.racecity.com/index.php?op...&id=1&Itemid=9
http://www.racecity.com/index.php?op...d=17&Itemid=47

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by rockstar

I don't disagree with that whatsoever.

But what Regorium said was this:

• Going under the speed limit is absolutely worse than speeding.

Absolutely worse. He is stating that in 100% of situations, speeding is safer than going under the speed limit. Yes, going under the limit can be dangerous, no doubt about it. But to say that going under the limit is absolutely more dangerous than speeding is completely false.

And:

• If you're doing 80 on deerfoot, you are endangering many many more people than the guy that's doing 120. For the guy doing 120, he's only endangering himself.

Also totally incorrect. For the guy doing 120, not only is he endangering himself, but in the event that he crashes into another vehicle/other vehicles, and not just the ditch where nobody else is hit, then he's absolutely endangering everyone else around him. And quite frankly, if you crash your car on Deerfoot at most times of day, you'll be taking someone out with you.

That's the issue I took with the comments.

Fair enough. I agree with that. I guess it's too variable to say absolutley which is more dangerous or less dangerous.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rockstar

The two points I underlined are just plain wrong. I don't know how you can say that.

Completely wrong. I don't know what else to say.

What's completely wrong with that statement is that it has this 'absolute' tone to it. In reality what's unsafe is many cars on one road with large variations of speed. Ie a car going 100 on a road in which the traffic is travelling at 80. Also irresponsible unsafe driving is going at 100 km/h in the left hand lane on Deerfort when the rest of the left lane traffic is travelling at 120-125km/h. Yes those other people are speeding and are wrong to do so, but since everyone is doing it the safest thing to do is to stay in the right hand lanes and let them blow by. This is why the Deerfoot has signs that say "Slower traffic use right hand lanes" and not "Those going under 100 km/h use the right hand lane." You can only control your own actions in life and not those of others. Thus drive as best as you can and leave it to the cops to slow these people down. Over time I find that the Deerfoot ghost cars claim many of these 'asshats'!