Cell Phones Don't Cause Brain Cancer

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Hahaha... um... no.

A microwave is a electromagnetic wave at a wavelength (~30cm)... why are you talking about power?

How about a microwave satallite at 100kW?

Where did I say power??????

If you read my first post....I said different frequencies....re: different wave lengths.....You obviously cannot read.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Where did I say power??????

You said energy. Energy is what creates ionization.

Nobody talks about a EM wave in terms of energy. Everyone talks about it in terms of power, it gives more information and more readily usable.

You said this: I do no that microwaves are lower energy waves

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

You said energy. Energy is what creates ionization.

Nobody talks about a EM wave in terms of energy. Everyone talks about it in terms of power, it gives more information and more readily usable.

You said this: I do no that microwaves are lower energy waves

It is measured as energy.

[Phanuthier]

Do you even know what you just posted?

You showed me the chart for the energy of a single photon. That's not what your post is talking about.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Do you even know what you just posted?

You showed me the chart for the energy of a single photon. That's not what your post is talking about.

So it isn't the electromagnetic spectrum? Funny.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

So it isn't the electromagnetic spectrum? Funny.

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

When a signal, in this case microwave, is emitted, are you seeing photons emitted?

Or an emission spectra?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ah I think it is the other way around.

The specrum can be expressed in terms of energy, wavelengths, or frequencies.

But I am sure you already new that.

[Phanuthier]

Uh, sure. You believe what you want then.

PS : Might wanna look at this http://www.tno.nl/defensie_en_veiligheid/militaire_middelen/electro_magnetic_protecti/high_power_microwaves_(hp/

http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/c...=2345911&lid=1

Not dangourous at all, huh?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Uh, sure. You believe what you want then.

No wonder you have a blue skill rating.

Actually, the electromagnetic spectrum can be expressed in terms of energy, wavelength, or frequency. Each way of thinking about the EM spectrum is related to the others in a precise mathematical way. So why do we have three ways of describing things, each with a different set of physical units? After all, frequency is measured in cycles per second (which is called a Hertz), wavelength is measured in meters, and energy is measured in electron volts.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/sc...mspectrum.html

Did you know that electromagnetic waves can not only be described by their wavelength, but also by their energy and frequency?

http://imagers.gsfc.nasa.gov/ems/waves3.html

Regions of the Electromagnetic Spectrum

The following table gives approximate wavelengths, frequencies, and energies for selected regions of the electromagnetic spectrum

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l.../spectrum.html

Guess I am wrong.

[Phanuthier]

Guess you didn't realize you're talking about the energy of a single photon...

But what do I know, I'm a photonics engineer.

In the case you are talking about, people refer to a signal in terms of power, not energy. First sign that you have no idea what you're talking about. You can refer to a photon's energy by its wavelength as it is related to Plank's constant. But when you want to talk about propagating the wave, you are talking about power.

[V]

Here's a dumb question, but what units do you use to measure the power of a wavelength?

And what exactly is the power of a wavelength? Is it more or less the ummmph behind the wave to get it to go a certain distance before it dissipates?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Here's a dumb question, but what units do you use to measure the power of a wavelength?

In the lab, we typically just talk say wavelength. If you take a gas laser like HeNe, you are takling about 670 nm. 808nm for some laser surgery, or maybe 30cm if you want to talk about microwaves.

You only refer to its energy when you want to talk about something related to photons. For instance, how many photons do you need to cause a semi conductor to create a current for a photodiode?

Remember Plank's Constant relation, E = hv... energy of a photon. In your florecent lights, for instance, you have a gas plasma that emits radiation at certain frequencies. If you look at the spectrum of a gas plasma light (very commonly used, very cheap lighting source) you will see spikes on your spectrium... those corraspond to the energy of your released photon (bandgap of your gas) and thus, you get spikes at that respective wavelength. So, if I wanted to talk about how much energy you want to ionize something from its valence band to conduction band, I'd be talking about photon energy so I know what I need to ionize something, quantum mechanics aside (such as Potential wells, et al)

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

And what exactly is the power of a wavelength? Is it more or less the ummmph behind the wave to get it to go a certain distance before it dissipates?

There is no power of a wavelength. But if you want to measure a electromagnetic wave, you talk about power. It relates to intensity and electric field rather easily. Look at those two links above for example.

Punk Works, for instance, is looking to power a climber to climb a cable, powering it through microwaves. In that, they talk about power there... power of your microwave, power of your rectenna's, ect.

And another reason why you use power, because you know that the power of a EM wave dies off 1/r^2.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I have VERY limited understanding of electomagnetic engineering....however....I do no that microwaves are lower energy waves than even light waves.

so... if one single wave/particle has more energy than another it shouldn't matter that the lower energy emission goes through things like air, flesh, bones? that's the whole point here. you can't paint a human innards picture on an xray screen with a flashlight. not to mention the ENTIRE point of cellphone danger, which is the number of waves you're actually exposed to, based on a 1/r cubed relation from the source.

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

As for radar detectors....what are you talking about? Do you mean radar guns?

yep, oops. but wait a minute... i thought that the energy level of light was higher! i wonder why radar emissions cause cellular damage...

[Phanuthier]

Forget ionization, when you have a EM wave hitting a surface of a conductor... and your head is one big conductor with all that fluid there...

Now, I don't go around wearing a tin foil hat, and do use a cell phone from time to time (low power signal, and keep that thing farther away from my brain) but there is scientific reasoning for why it could cause cancer. To say that there is 0% correlation is complete stupidity, believed by only those who ignore science and follow mindless trivia stats behind it.

However, if you would have told me the correlation is weak, then I'd agree with you. I personally believe the correlation between cancer and cell phones is very weak, especially for the power they use for their signal these days... but how it may cause the dipoles of your brain fluids to align, or the fact that power is absorbed by your brain (eg. attenuation) there's definately scientific correlation.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Looger

so... if one single wave/particle has more energy than another it shouldn't matter that the lower energy emission goes through things like air, flesh, bones? that's the whole point here. you can't paint a human innards picture on an xray screen with a flashlight. not to mention the ENTIRE point of cellphone danger, which is the number of waves you're actually exposed to, based on a 1/r cubed relation from the source.

yep, oops. but wait a minute... i thought that the energy level of light was higher! i wonder why radar emissions cause cellular damage...

I simply asked you to clarify....I didn't say that "laser" caused cancer.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I simply asked you to clarify....I didn't say that "laser" caused cancer.

Wrong again. Radar is RF, not visible light. A laser is (almost) monochromatic source (typically +/-3nm) in the visible or near visible range.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I simply asked you to clarify....I didn't say that "laser" caused cancer.

what?

you made an offhand remark aboot flashlights, just following your logic and poking a joke.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Looger

that cellphone is many thousands of times stronger when it comes to radiation flying through your brain, plain and simple.

You're assuming that it's the same power level inside the brain as it is from the cell phone source. That's simply not true. ENEL 575 Microwave Circuits and Antennas.. it's a hard course but it does show the effects of water on RF signals.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

How does the intensity of a radio wave die off?

And what happens when you take a electromagnetic wave interacts with a conductor?

What conductor are you speaking of?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by kermitology

You're assuming that it's the same power level inside the brain as it is from the cell phone source. That's simply not true. ENEL 575 Microwave Circuits and Antennas.. it's a hard course but it does show the effects of water on RF signals.

no, i'm not assuming that.

you're kilometers away from the source of all that other transmission, and less than a meter away from the cel phone. it's at least an inversely squared relation.

what i was referring to in the post was 'all those other' radio waves going through your brain, and the comparison of a near source to a far one.