What political issue can swing your vote?

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Are you mentally imcompetent? Do you know how to read? A chromosome short?

I claimed the under the rule of the Liberal governemt, there have been 8 years of surplus'. This is fact, if you want some evidence check the governement website. Please, read my post slowly and think it through. I also said they deserve some credit for the booming economy. Is this really that hard to understand?

You're the one who doesn't know how to read. Their so called "surplus" came from excess taxation, and the bulk of the national debt was built by a flaming Liberal, Chretien's Sith Lord, Mr. Pierre Elliot Trudeau.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

I also said they deserve some credit for the booming economy. Is this really that hard to understand? We live in a semi-socialist country with government intervention.

They do indeed deserve some credit for the state of the country as it is. Is the amount of credit they deserve enough to completely ignore other parties? Not a chance. Is it enough to believe that other parties could not do the same, slightly worse, or slightly better than the Liberals? No.

The economy isn't going to fall on its face due to a change in government, no matter what it seems some people seem to believe.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

You're the one who doesn't know how to read. Their so called "surplus" came from excess taxation, and the bulk of the national debt was built by a flaming Liberal, Chretien's Sith Lord, Mr. Pierre Elliot Trudeau.

Patently false when you consider that Mulroney doubled whatever debt Prime Ministers Trudeau, Clark, Trudeau, Diefenbaker, Pearson, St. Laurent, Mackenzie-King, etc had accrued in a mere 8 years.

To think the conservatives are fiscally prudent is a slap in the face of recent history. I know we all want to forget the 80s but lets still deal in reality please?

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by calculoso

They do indeed deserve some credit for the state of the country as it is. Is the amount of credit they deserve enough to completely ignore other parties? Not a chance. Is it enough to believe that other parties could not do the same, slightly worse, or slightly better than the Liberals? No.

The economy isn't going to fall on its face due to a change in government, no matter what it seems some people seem to believe.

Let me point this out. I am not saying that the other parties shouldn't be given a chance. I was/am very dissapointed with the Sponsorship scandal and excess spending in programs such as the gun registry. It is very apparent to everybody that the Conservatives will be forming the next government, barring a miracle. I am actually happy that the Conservatives are doing well in Quebec. The Liberals have become complacent after years in government and a change might be good for Canada. However, you cannot take away what the Liberals have done for the economy.

It should be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

subsidize people with their hand out all the time like "refugees" who come on a boat, lands in the country and get $800 from the government to start off.

I know quite a few "boat" people that arrived from Vietnam with zero assets, and totally relied on government assistance to get started on a life here. One's an engineer now and his daughter's a doctor.

Think that "$800" was worth it? I think they pay $800 in taxes per paycheque now quite easily. Not everyone turns out like this, but it represents the spirit of what's supposed to happen.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Hakan

To think the conservatives are fiscally prudent is a slap in the face of recent history. I know we all want to forget the 80s but lets still deal in reality please?

Sure.. Let's.

To assume that the Conservatives will automatically revert to that government is a fallacy. Times have changed. It used to be common and acceptable practice to carry deficits. Every government did it. Now? It isn't anywhere close to acceptable.

Will there be changes? Definitely. Are the Liberal plan and the Convervative plan and the NDP plan the same? No way. Is one better than another? Depends on what you value. No party is stupid enough to spend us into oblivion (although sometimes I wonder with all these promises).

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Are you mentally imcompetent? Do you know how to read? A chromosome short?

I claimed the under the rule of the Liberal governemt, there have been 8 years of surplus'. This is fact, if you want some evidence check the governement website. Please, read my post slowly and think it through. I also said they deserve some credit for the booming economy. Is this really that hard to understand?

Nice. I am fine thank you.

But let's look at this.

Are you mentally imcompetent? Not sure, perhaps because I cannot read what you wrote.

Do you know how to read? Very well, but considering the following, I have some concerns on your part...

Incinerator wrote (which you quoted), ...because I don't like Harper either.
and you replied... Don't let your Conservative goggles skew your vision too much.

Doesn't look like you read that one very well, now did you?

Then I asked...
What do you consider they did correct to attain balanced budgets, and in fact surpluses?

Obviously you didn't read that part either, since you didn't address it, but in fact took a different tangent. I even supplied some items for you to think about... but no, you ended up replying:

I claimed the under the rule of the Liberal governemt, there have been 8 years of surplus.

Not only did you apparently not read what I asked you to reply to, but have now in fact backed off to the lowest common denominator in your initial statement.

I think by these, I have addressed that yes, I do read, and that there is a concern as to whether YOU do.

As to your third question...

A chromosome short? I have the expected amount, but I anticipate you have 32 too many...

Now, if you really want to play, fine... I can play to. If you want to discuss things rationally, I can do that as well. No need to insult myself, or Incinerator, nor anyone else here.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

However, you cannot take away what the Liberals have done for the economy.

And, at the same time, you can't give them excess credit for it either.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

I know quite a few "boat" people that arrived from Vietnam with zero assets, and totally relied on government assistance to get started on a life here. One's an engineer now and his daughter's a doctor.

Think that "$800" was worth it? I think they pay $800 in taxes per paycheque now quite easily. Not everyone turns out like this, but it represents the spirit of what's supposed to happen.

What's your point, there's always exceptions to anything of course, and I know quite a few people like the one you described too. I'm talking about the ones that came here illegally through smugglers like that boat from China that got intercepted by Customs agents off the BC shores awhile ago. I'm too lazy to find the link but I'm sure you've heard of it, it was all over the news. What isn't is that not only did the Feds not send them back, they handed them tax dollars then let them hide in Chinatown for the next 30 years. Yes, I know people like that too, don't say I'm generalizing.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Patently false when you consider that Mulroney doubled whatever debt Prime Ministers Trudeau, Clark, Trudeau, Diefenbaker, Pearson, St. Laurent, Mackenzie-King, etc had accrued in a mere 8 years.

To think the conservatives are fiscally prudent is a slap in the face of recent history. I know we all want to forget the 80s but lets still deal in reality please?

The Conservatives of yesteryear was the Progressive Conservatives, a party of Joe Clarks and Brian Mulroney. The Conservatives today is just the Reform party with a different banner with a few PCs absorbed into the grassroots.

The Liberals, on the other hand, are still the same Liberals. Trudeau handed the throne to his finance minister, and this finance minister in turn handed the throne to his finance minister. And the taxpayer is still taxed to death taking home $26000 to feed a family of 4 on a $50000 salary. Don't tell me about how their surpluses reflect a rosy economy. It's all from the taxpayer's pockets and it's all going to Quebec's ad agencies, Jean's golf courses and Paul's tax credits for his boats.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

N

There is really no point in responding to this post. If you had read Incerator's posts in this thread you would come to know that he is just posting false information(busted on 2 occasions) and you wouldn't be defending this poster.

I'm done with all of this trolling. Could we perhaps get back on topic? You know, swing issues?

[Bobblehead]

Maybe my favourite issue is getting some traction. Wrath of the bloggers

Although the article seems to look at the effect of blogging in the election and not as much about the actual issue being blogged, it is good to see a bit more coverage in a national forum.

The riding of Parkdale-High Park will probably be one of the few I will be following closely on Monday (other than national totals, of course).

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

If a party had in their platform that they were going to shelf the CRTC I'd considering voting for them.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

My #1 issue? This country is run on a welfare culture with a billion types of taxes all disguised as different things. What would make me vote Fiberal? Make EI contributions voluntary, if you don't contribute you're not eligible to claim. Eliminate tax brackets (flat rate income tax). Phase out the GST. Stop taking money out of the middle class' pockets to waste it on ad scandals and subsidize people with their hand out all the time like "refugees" who come on a boat, lands in the country and get $800 from the government to start off.

Putting aside this xenophobic and ambiguously sterotyped comment, most economists will tell you that the biggest long-term threat to Canada's economy is population; or a lack thereof, leading to under-employment and lack of human capital to sustain Canada's massive economic growth.

That $800 given comes back into the economy in spades. A guy gets $800 bucks, gets a $7/hour job and will spend more than $10,000 in goods in one year.

You want to put the fire on the government for lying, cheating and stealing. Fine. All valid points.

But considering a large bulk of my extended family in Canada are "refugees who come on a boat" I am extremely insulted considering they didn't take the $800 and spent it on hookers and blow. They spent it on basic, essential needs and are now engineers, accountants, etc... this is the MAJORITY of what happens with Canadian immigration and not the exception.

Ok, I didn't exactly put aside the xenophobic and ambiguously sterotyped comment. I take vehement exception. So let's just go all the way and say Incinerator, go back to the backwater town you came from with a few more bricks to prop up your trailer with. And take your two-holed pillow case with you.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

But considering a large bulk of my extended family in Canada are "refugees who come on a boat" I am extremely insulted considering they didn't take the $800 and spent it on hookers and blow. They spent it on basic, essential needs and are now engineers, accountants, etc... this is the MAJORITY of what happens with Canadian immigration and not the exception.

absolutely. My Dad took his so-called 800 dollars, worked his way through ****ty jobs till he could go back to school (and get a degree that he already had back home) and raised his family at the same time, got a good job, and worked his way up to owning his own medical practice. Now he is doing considerably better than most of his Canadian-raised counterparts, mostly because he knew the chance given to him to come to this country was not to be taken lightly.

Incinerator, you xenopohobic *******, where do you think your relatives came from? Chances are at one point, it was YOUR family who came over on the boat, so dont try to act like some superior human.

[Flame On]

I'd like to see lipservice paid at least to environmental matters. As even if the scientists are completely corrupt, there's more to it than global warming. I'm also totally against the mixing of Church and State as CP pointed out.
I have swung a little. I've gone from I hate the Cons to I hate the Cons but perhaps a minority change wouldn't be so bad.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Patently false when you consider that Mulroney doubled whatever debt Prime Ministers Trudeau, Clark, Trudeau, Diefenbaker, Pearson, St. Laurent, Mackenzie-King, etc had accrued in a mere 8 years.

To think the conservatives are fiscally prudent is a slap in the face of recent history. I know we all want to forget the 80s but lets still deal in reality please?

You should get your facts straight. 1968, Trudeau takes power - Canada National debt less than $20B. When he left office in '84 it was ~$200B. The country was so heavily in debt that Mulroney had no choice but to implemented the GST just to pay the interest on all of Trudeau's over-spending

[transplant99]

Some people consider Trudeau's economic policies to have been a weak point. Inflation and unemployment marred much of his term. When Trudeau took office in 1968 Canada had a debt of $18 billion, when he left office in 1984, that debt stood at $200 billion - an increase of 1200%.

though it must be pointed out that much of the modernized world also incurred heavy debt during that time.

[Flame On]

This is another area where it has to work both ways. If the Liberals can't take credit for balancing budgets, then Conservatives in Alberta can't argue that their actions (read Klein) had anything other than geography, to do with success here.

[transplant99]

If the Liberals can't take credit for balancing budgets, then Conservatives in Alberta can't argue that their actions (read Klein) had anything other than geography, to do with success here

I disagree.

In Alberta the bulk of the payback was on the backs of Albertans who didnt necessarily see an increase in provincial income tax, but instead paid through cutbacks and whatnot, not to mention that oil royalties increased, thereby softening the blow a bit to individual Albertans.

The 2002 federal budget shows that the Liberals have increased tax revenues by more than $24.2 billion since taking office (1993-2002). This means that every taxpayer has had to shell out an additional $1800 per year in hidden or obvious taxes. The Liberals spent there way to surplus by taking your money. Period.