Friedman: Flames in 'Danger zone'

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They also aren’t always correct - and do occasionally have conditions wrong.

I would imagine Friedge did his homework before posting it. If he doesn’t make a correction to it, I’d take his word over those sites.

I hope we get confirmation either way as it would open up some additional options

[Joborule]

What is Friedman on about? So Flames should remain in mediocracy for another 3 decades?

Since Calgary won't be an attractive place for free agents if we boot all the vets now, they'll never come in the future?

Does he think Flames have no chance of getting good players through the draft or something? The only way Flames can get good players is through free agency?

What a weird take from someone like him.

Who gives a damn about being good now. The goal is to be good in the next few years. When Flames have prospects that develop into good quality players, and the team competitive trajectory is back on the upward swing, then that's when you go after free agents. And if the Flames are looking like a team that's on the cusp of entering their contention, free agents that are interested in wanting to get a ring are going to be interested in coming.

I mean, what's going on it's working. So why should the vets stay when they preforming like the worst team in the league? If it wasn't for Wolf last year, this team likely would've been close to the bottom of the standings anyway. There's nothing to really salvage for those over the age of 30.

[Rhett44]

I would not lose an ounce of sleep if we lost any or all of Kadri, Weegar, Backlund, Coleman, Andersson.

If the vets want out? Cya! I'll drive you to the airport tonight!

[Calgary4LIfe]

In two seasons, we will have (assuming everyone is re-signed):Backlund - 38
Kadri - 37
Hanley - 36
Coleman - 35
Huberdeau - 34
Weegar - 33
Lomberg - 32


I guess Lomberg, Kirkland and Andersson (if he is not traded) would join this veteran group.


Which of these players stays effective? Heck, how many of these players are effective right now? Let's be honest here. I get what he is trying to say, but:


1) The turn of the century thing was 99% a consequence of economics more than anything else. Sure, the Flames could have ran a better ship, but they couldn't afford the fuel to go far anyway. Any scars from that era is 100% based on a lack of a salary cap. Worry about that era again if there is any talk of eliminating the salary cap.

2) The late 2000s was 100% a consequence of being fearful of repeating the 90s again! Had they not worried so much about missing the playoffs so long, they could have been more proactive, and gotten a haul for a lot of the players at the time.


3) I argue that the rebuild should have kick-started the second Gaudreau left for free agency, and while (thankfully!) that was being considered, Zito offered a substantial package for Tkachuk. Hindsight is 20/20, so the best thing Treliving could have done was trade Huberdeau right away, and perhaps Weegar as well. That would have been a haul to kickstart a rebuild, with a lot more vets to be dealt. Flames would have been further ahead today, right?


Now we are talking about scars from the past as some pretense to keep this going a little longer? I don't know about you, but I have 1000X more faith in the 2009-10 Flames making the playoffs and winning a cup then I do today's version (and this is with the benefit of hindsight!).


This is such a terrible take. Like it or not, this is where the Flames are - basically at a burn it to the ground rebuild. NOBODY is going to want to come here and play in the next 2 years if this veteran core stays. NOBODY. If the Flames get a top pick this year, get another next, and look like they are building a good core again, then you will see more players be willing to play here. I actually don't care about that at all. UFAs are overpriced. I would want Conroy to build 95% of this team through the draft, so that everyone grows up together, the team looks like ti is about to become a contender, and the existing players that are drafted and developed want to extend at slightly friendly - fair value deals, rather than having to overpay.


UFAs will be signed to plug a hole here or there, but Calgary will never be a top 10 destination, so Calgary will never get those top of the range UFAs anyway. They will go to Vegas, Florida, Tampa, New York, Dallas, and probably San Jose once they improve too (as they were in the past).


If the vets want out, that's fine. Whether they want out now, or in a few years when almost all of them aren't in the league any longer, it is their choice. It just shouldn't be a point of worry, and I don't know how Fredman can write that article with a straight face. Worrying about previous failures has directly led to making poor decisions in my opinion. It is teams that get forced into rebuilds that seem to have forever rebuilds.


Flames are the last place team in the league early on this season. I imagine there will be some winning streaks, and they will bounce up and down in the bottom 10 this year. With this start, the age of some of these vets, not having enough good players in their primes - I am thinking playoffs is already out of the realm of possibility this year. Sure, they can come back, absolutely, and that's the fun side of sports. However, if I am in charge of the organization, I am going to base my decision making with the probable, rather than the improbable. I would be asking the existing vets if they would like to move BEFORE one of them has their agent leak it out ala Zadorov. Keep it quiet, keep it internal, and for the love of the hockey Gods, make it look like this is the plan, rather than players jumping ship.

I think everything is moot, however. I think Conroy is rebuilding, and there isn't really all that much more to pick at this roster. This building is demolished for the most part. Andersson can return a nice package. Kadri can too - depending if he allows a few teams to bid for him at least, and I do think that Coleman can still return something valuable as well. That's it. That's the carcass. Huberdeau can't go anywhere. Hanley and Lomberg won't return much (I hope something, but probably nothing), so it is just Weegar.


Basically, this article is just about Weegar. I love him, but worrying about what one single vet might do seems kind of silly, right? (Yes, this is tongue-in-cheek).

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Joborule

If it wasn't for Wolf last year, this team likely would've been close to the bottom of the standings anyway.

*sigh*

Yes he ran the tables against the 3 worst teams in the east and the 3 worst teams in the west, and was no better than the other guy outside of that

The other guy btw has started 5 games, not letting in more than 2 any of those 5 games so far this year and is sitting above .930

[browna]

The team needs an identity and a path on the ice for playing a certain way. Last year was a nice surprise an anomaly and there is definitely a “we can’t do that again” attitude through the organization.

I do think Conroy wanted to be a few steps further ahead than he is as far as having higher end talent.

Playoffs last year would’ve helped that maybe in the offseason.
But I think he thought he’d have a near top/impact guy already. The cap space he promised to weaponize in that pursuit, fell flat, in part because team weren’t desperate, and the cap is now going up.

I think the lead up to, and then actual ground breaking of a new building was also expected to get free agents to jump on board. That also hasn’t happened yet.

The fact that he’s now a couple years down the road after clearing out vets, without a clear path because he hasn’t backfilled as he planned. Sure he’s got some picks and picked decently but I don’t doubt that he wouldn’t have minded flipping some of those picks for more “right now” help.

There is only so many potential magic beans you can have at one time, and if those magic beans don’t have the proper vets and structure around them, they become less valuable. Take Buffalo for example.

They need to figure out the Anderson thing.

But mainly, they as a team on the ice have to get an identity and purpose and style and swagger, and that needs a defacto leader, if not new captain.

The current one, re-signed in part after threatening to leave, only so he could get the captaincy Sutter denied him, now signing a deal long enough so he can be the one to take the ceremonial face off at the new building. He has never inspired confidence as being the type of captain where other players are leaving other coming to play with, and that’s what type of team this needs to be, following a leader into battle. They was Iginla. Giordano to an extent too.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

It is the point. I also don’t think Elliot is right. Some recent (ish) examples of top free agents coming to Calgary with Markstron and Tanev.

The Flames current situation is attracting no one, but get some young talent and continue to build a culture, free agents will come back when the time is right.

100%. The Flames have issues getting free agents to sign here when we're struggling, but plenty of teams have trouble with that- players want to go to a team where they have a chance to win. In the Treliving years, we had no trouble attracting free agents- Markstrom and Tanev probably had teams lining up to grab them, and they chose us. Kadri came here, Coleman was a highly sought after free-agent, too. It seems like we nabbed one of the top-10 FA's every season for a while there.

I really Calgary is recognized as a world-class city, and if the team is winning (or has a chance to win) we're a fairly attractive option- especially for guys with families.

[Strange Brew]

I don’t know if I agree with the tone of his article but it does seem like a lot of superstars experienced success very early in their career. I would hate for Wolf to experience 5 years of losing for example.

[Sandman]

It seemed to me that when Eichel was discussing the last two teams left in the sweepstakes to acquire his services from Buffalo after we was ultimately traded to Vegas, he seemed fine that one of those teams was Calgary.

[really?]

It has to be difficult to manage a room full of guys who don’t want to be in the room, and I would assume the team was getting hints of this when they re-upped Huska. While there are obvious pitfalls to playing guys whose core interest is moving on (Buffalo anyone?), what Friedman is saying is prudent. It’s foolish to move guys without getting value, and having a succession plan.

I trust that Conroy already has a draft of what he wants the roster to look like when some of the vets are moved, and I also believe he values picks and prospects as much as most of this board, but there is no way to truly know how a roster shakeup will impact the development of young players. There’s some heavy lifting to be done, so it appears management is preparing the base, and roster, for some uncertain times.

I think we assume that players are in the know as to what is going on around them, but even the strongest of rooms have secrets when things take a turn for the worse. The players certainly can see that change is coming, but outside of the Andersson situation there are likely as many questions as answers about what some of the veterans are thinking.

At some point in a build there’s a point where some heavy lifting is required, and here we are. It’s inevitable there will be some pain, but how management, the players and yes, the base, handle this is this difference between an extended illness and a funeral. The team has already laid the groundwork for a transition, and these media releases suggest they are preparing for the necessary pain. Keep the faith, I trust this is part of a plan and not an “Oil Change.”

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by Sandman

It seemed to me that when Eichel was discussing the last two teams left in the sweepstakes to acquire his services from Buffalo after we was ultimately traded to Vegas, he seemed fine that one of those teams was Calgary.

We were more desirable than Buffalo who wouldn’t let him have his surgery. It’s something I guess haha

[curves2000]

I can't speak for Friedman but I can speak as a Flames fan since birth 40 years ago. This team in a lot of recent years has been selling nonsense. This notion that we are a cap team almost annually, here to compete for the playoffs and do damage when in the playoffs is all nonsense to maximize revenue. I don't think winning is legit #1 priority in the eyes of ownership and that filters down to management and executive leadership.

I take it as saying the Flames are hot garbage and have been for a while, don't screw up a chance to draft high!! We need it. We don't need to swap garbage for trash and make a little run for.........what reason? To say next year, next coach, next 4th rounder will get the job done?

The village is burning down and the whores are washing their hair with the valuable water resources, let them! Don't bring in the water bombers from the outside and think your saving the town. The town needs to be rebuild and remodeled.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I would not lose an ounce of sleep if we lost any or all of Kadri, Weegar, Backlund, Coleman, Andersson.

If the vets want out? Cya! I'll drive you to the airport tonight!

i'd sleep better if they were shipped out personally

[Rhett44]

If anyone is questioning that we should be tanking and instead cheering for another mushy middle finish and wins... look at Celebrini tonight.

He had 5 points, and looked incredible. Those are the types of players you can get by winning a draft lottery.

I hope we lose every game.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

If anyone is questioning that we should be tanking and instead cheering for another mushy middle finish and wins... look at Celebrini tonight.

He had 5 points, and looked incredible. Those are the types of players you can get by winning a draft lottery.

I hope we lose every game.

Out of Thanks, but Thanks!

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

We were more desirable than Buffalo who wouldn’t let him have his surgery. It’s something I guess haha

True, lol.

[Redrum]

The danger zone is finishing in 9th every year and pissing the playoff miss away. Like most of the franchise history. They might move out of it for once this year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

*sigh*

Yes he ran the tables against the 3 worst teams in the east and the 3 worst teams in the west, and was no better than the other guy outside of that

The other guy btw has started 5 games, not letting in more than 2 any of those 5 games so far this year and is sitting above .930

Vladar is not as good as Wolf.

Small sample sizes warp people's perceptions.

[White Out 403]

I don't remember these articles being written about the oilers. In fact I remember how each year was "finally" "their year".

[FlamesNightmare]

I dunno what this "Danger Zone" Friedman is talking about. Maybe to The Flames start to the season, but to me thats a good thing in the long run. We are in Re-Build Mode, collecting nice prospects and training them. I'd say things will get alot worse as the season goes, but what do you expect!

For now, I think we should just keep going, don't make knee-jerk reactions, and just ride this pain out!

Honestly I'm on the Team Tank band-wagon. Get rid of some veterans, and expiring contracts. Tank the season, and get the most amount of number combinations for the draft lottery. And get some nice top draft picks come next year.