The 'Room for Improvement' Thread

[Party Elephant]

More Michael Stone slap shots from the point please.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Elite goaltending has been directly responsible for some of those wins.

Im not sure I get this. Mike Smith IS part of the team, right? And trading for him over the summer was part of the plan. Good goal tending is vital to every winning record.

Everyone is making a big racket over the first line and second line specifically doing all of the scoring. Thats alot better then the first 15-20 games last year when we only had the 2nd line scoring..... this seems like a marked improvement?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Elite goaltending has been directly responsible for some of those wins.

Absolutely, but not exclusively. Smith has been great, but I don’t think there is a single game after opening night where the Flames skaters were outclassed all night long. Even in the LA game the Flames looked more to have run out of gas than anything.

And moreover, for those few games that might be considered “steals” by the Flames there are at least one or two they have lost in which they should probably have won.

The point being that all things being equal, the Flames are not “lucky” to be over .500.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

Im not sure I get this. Mike Smith IS part of the team, right? And trading for him over the summer was part of the plan. Good goal tending is vital to every winning record.

Everyone is making a big racket over the first line and second line specifically doing all of the scoring. Thats alot better then the first 15-20 games last year when we only had the 2nd line scoring..... this seems like a marked improvement?

Read the post I was responding to. I'm a huge advocate of not excusing good goaltending as they are part of the team.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Read the post I was responding to. I'm a huge advocate of not excusing good goaltending as they are part of the team.

Okay I've gone back and read all the posts, and I still don't really get it. Your pro goaltending, I get that. But the gist of the post that Textcritic was responding to was that the flames are fortunate to be over .500 because of their lack of balanced scoring. You said that exceptional goaltending has been responsible for some of those wins (and it pretty much always is in a win). And I don't disagree with that sentiment, Smith has been well beyond my expectation. But Textcritic, I believe, was trying to make the point that the games aren't as lopsided as indicated by the lack of scoring on the 3rd and 4th line. They aren't "Fortunate" to be in the situation they find themselves in. That I 100% agree with. They are, infact, unlucky not to be in a better position if the 3rd and 4th lines were contributing even a little bit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

Okay I've gone back and read all the posts, and I still don't really get it. Your pro goaltending, I get that. But the gist of the post that Textcritic was responding to was that the flames are fortunate to be over .500 because of their lack of balanced scoring. You said that exceptional goaltending has been responsible for some of those wins (and it pretty much always is in a win). And I don't disagree with that sentiment, Smith has been well beyond my expectation. But Textcritic, I believe, was trying to make the point that the games aren't as lopsided as indicated by the lack of scoring on the 3rd and 4th line. They aren't "Fortunate" to be in the situation they find themselves in. That I 100% agree with. They are, infact, unlucky not to be in a better position if the 3rd and 4th lines were contributing even a little bit.

Yes, this is exactly right, thanks. Although I don’t think I would say the Flames are “unlucky” for their want for secondary scoring. They may be, but this does remain to be seen.

[Fan in Exile]

We're close to the bottom of the league in goal-scoring and after a good start, our powerplay and penalty-killing have tanked. We have an 8-6 record but a -3 goal differential and zero offense outside our top two lines.

So sure, kudos to our top two lines and Mike Smith. They've been great. But all considered, I think it's fair to say that we're fortunate to be where we are. Glad we're on a 3 game winning streak but not sure there are strong indications that the ship is righted and it will be smooth-sailing from here. Still a number of issues to be sorted out.

[Jore]

their most recent play has been really encouraging and a marked improvement over the beginning of the season. their overall play has improved and i hope will keep improving. if they keep playing the same way, the goals will come. with that said, i see some improvements as obvious as playing jankowski over glass:

(not counting jagr back in the lineup hopefully for a while)

kulak over bartkowski forever
ferland over brouwer on the pp
versteeg and possibly brodie off the pp
brouwer and stajan off the pk, at the very least separated
jankowski/bennett/xxx more toi than brouwer/stajan/versteeg

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Elite goaltending has been directly responsible for some of those wins.

Never apologize for good goaltending.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Elite goaltending has been directly responsible for some of those wins.

and why should we apologize for that? You need that to win the Cup. A good goalie is often the difference between a contender and a bubble team. Good teams are only as good as their goalie for the most part.

[FireGilbert]

A better PP, any scoring at all from the bottom 6 forwards, and more offence from Hamilton.

Other than that the team has been pretty solid. The top two lines are great, the goaltending has been elite, and the defence has been limiting shots after a rough start.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Insane_Flame

I feel that we give up our blue line far too easily. Combined with not being great at board battles, teams are being allowed to cycle for extended periods of time and getting great looks from the point. Luckily Smith has shown almost Kipper like strength in seeing pucks through the crowd.

I agree. And I would add that we give up the offensive blue line much too easily as well. It seems like our D pinch less than the opponent every night.

What is particularly frustrating about this, is that Gulutzan specifically mentioned winning both blue lines, and not giving up either, as one of the pillars of his system.

Second thing is that we are horrid on board battles and one-on-one puck battles. Again, when we were a pure transition team, that was one thing, but the coach constantly talks about 50/50 hockey. Well, we suck at 50/50 hockey.

And one more frustration with the style of play: 5 - 8 foot passes. Far too many really close-in passes, especially in the defensive zone, that are just too close to be effective. The player receiving the pass doesn't have time to react to it, and ends up being caught looking down. Not only do these short passes cause a lot of turnovers, but they also cause the players to stop skating, which slows down our play.

Having said all that, we are a talented team that is slowly, steadily improving.

Oh, and no, we aren't 'fortunate' to be where we are. We're where we are because of our play. Yes, the bottom 6 has been bad, but the top 6 - especially Gaudreau and Monahan - have been great. Thus 8-6. If the top 6 were worse, our record would be worse. If the bottom 6 were better, our record would be better. I don't see how 'fortunate' applies.

[Strange Brew]

Are people apologizing for elite goaltending? Or are they saying we’ve received elite goaltending and look like a bubble team.

Flames do not want to be a bubble team so seems to fair to wonder what happens next. After all, lots of people argued Flames were better than their record last year but were held back by goaltending.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Are people apologizing for elite goaltending? Or are they saying we’ve received elite goaltending and look like a bubble team.

Flames do not want to be a bubble team so seems to fair to wonder what happens next. After all, lots of people argued Flames were better than their record last year but were held back by goaltending.

Correct. And the primary difference between a bubble team (Dallas, Winnipeg, the Flames last year) and good teams, is goaltending.

We fixed our goaltending this year. That makes the Flames a better team.

That doesn't make them fortunate or undeserving (which some people seem to be implying).

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Correct. And the primary difference between a bubble team (Dallas, Winnipeg, the Flames last year) and good teams, is goaltending.

We fixed our goaltending this year. That makes the Flames a better team.

That doesn't make them fortunate or undeserving (which some people seem to be implying).

Not unfortunate or undeserving. But still unproven as to being a better team just yet.

[GranteedEV]

Special Teams. I don't know or care where they rank, but they just don't pass the eye test. Rarely do I think "we deserved to score" on the PP or "Smith had an easy PK". Even when we score.

I think we have some players - Bennett(PP/PK), Jankowski(PP/PK), Ferland(PP), Brodie (PK1), Kulak(PK), Stone (PP w Brodie), Hamilton (PP1) who could not only build confidence to carry over to 5v5 given some consistent expanded roles but contribute to more wins.

I feel people are really giving Stajan a hard time - for instance last game I agreed with Campbell that he was having his best game - but that doesn't excuse his clearly broken situation on the PK. If you really want to have him on the PK, have him pair up with Backlund, Frolik or Bennett who can pressure up the ice, and recover some pucks and clear the zone unlike Brouwer. Every time I see Stajan out there on the PK I just feel bad for him because he's actively being put in a position to fail with Brouwer to his right and Stone behind him. Even Giordano isn't a spring chicken even if he's a great player. That four man unit in particular is generally just broken.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Room for improvement.....

the following players have combined for a grand total of 9 points (2 goals and 7 assists) in 107 games played.

Stone (has 1 of the goal)
Hamonic (has the other 1 goal)
Brouwer
Lazar
Kulak
Hamilton
Bennett
Stajan
Batkowski
Glass
Jankowski.

Fun fact - right now Deryk Engelland is tied with that group of players with 2 goals.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

“Unusual,” yes. “Fortunate,” not really since the Flames are absolutely winning the games they should be winning most of the time. By that, I mean that they are most often the best team on the ice, and not getting buried by their opposition in scoring chances.

Without the Vezina level ridiculous goaltending I suspect the lack of scoring depth would be treated like a house on fire. Which, of course, it really is. Smith’s play dips at all (which has to be expected IMO), and the bottom six continue this historic run of ineptitude, and we are in a world of hurt.

We aren’t making the playoffs if we remain one of the five lowest scoring teams in the league. And given how well our top players are playing, the obvious issue is the brutal botttom six.

They don’t start contributing and we arent making the playoffs.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Are people apologizing for elite goaltending? Or are they saying we’ve received elite goaltending and look like a bubble team.

Flames do not want to be a bubble team so seems to fair to wonder what happens next. After all, lots of people argued Flames were better than their record last year but were held back by goaltending.

We are a bubble team with vezina level goaltending. Unsustainable IMO without the bottom six doing something. Anything!

[Kipper_3434]

Special teams are pretty ugly right now. Secondary scoring needs a to be better and I'm sure it will be. The Brouwer and Stajan era needs to be over soon. Versteeg hasn't been good since the first few games.

The team has been trending up in other ways though, way better discipline, good energy from the Janko line. Ferland has picked it up and Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Mony are all on a roll. Stone should gain confidence playing with Brodie, and our defence could be scary good when Hamonic comes back.

So far this team has and elite top 6. Pretty good top 4. 1 good/hot goalie, An okayish bottom pairing. And two lines that should both be good 3rd lines but one has looked like a good 4th line, and one has been press box quality. 8-6 seems about right.

....and I guess Lack is technically on this team...what does he do exactly?