Schools plagued by students lacking basic skills

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate@Sep 22 2005, 04:17 PM
Literacy is not a binary thing. There are levels of literacy, based not only on the technical aspects of language (spelling and grammar) but on the ability to comprehend and convey meaning.

From this site:
(The link is screwed by the filters. It should be /f@gan2.htm)

"It is generally accepted these days that reading entails using four cueing systems: pragmatic and world knowledge, semantic (words and word relationships that allow one to make sense out of what is read), syntactic (the sequence and flow of language that enable one to predict, to follow logical thought, to relate information through connectives, etc.) and graphophonic (speech sounds and letter, syllable, and corresponding sound structure of words)"

Are you illiterate if you don't know the difference between "their" and "there," or "to" and "too?" No, but you're not literate enough to keep your resumé from ending up in Cheese's trash can. The grammatical laziness that's so common on the internet is, I believe, contributing to the problem. Frankly, that's something I'll have to live with...but it's not something that our kids should have to live with in their schools.

Hey I agree with you about schools and I think it's disgraceful that kids come out of high school without basic skills. I've seen it first hand many times and it's not a lot of fun to correct. Try teaching a high school or even university student basic grammar and you'll get a pretty surly teenager and invariably you'll hear the sentence "who cares, you know what I meant".

I guess I just don't take message board laziness as seriously. If someone puts the same amount of time into their resumé as they do on a message board post, they've got bigger problems than screwing up "their" with "there". The main one being that they are stupid.

But you make a good point.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I think overly used slang is a problem too. When kids talk with made up words from MTV 90% of the time, how are they gonna know the real words when it's exam time.

[FireFly]

I think in internet speak sometimes, but it doesn't come out when writing papers.

Ever heard a joke and thought to yourself, 'lol'? I do that all the time. Or say to someone, WTF? Oh yes.

However, I don't understand why grammar is so hard for some, and why people aren't teaching it in school at the appropriate age. There are many studies and there is a window where language skills have to be taught or a person will not develop them. Use this information to develop curriculum in schools. It's not that hard.

[spydermal]

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible!"

[evman150]

Originally posted by Cheese@Sep 22 2005, 10:07 AM
since teachers and educators decided it was harmful to below average students to have spelling bees and times table contests...

This isn't totally extinct. My Math 8 teacher did and does what he calls a "drill" every class. Ten three digit numbers along one side and the eight integers from 2-9 along the top. So it's 80 three digit x one digit multiplication calculations you have to do. You have ten minutes to do it. Then he tosses in division instead of multiplication once in a while

Now THAT is how you become proficient at fast mental computation arithmetic.

I think something akin to this "drill" should be done in every intermediate math class. I know our whole class was a whole lot better off for it. And it is a "contest". You put up your hand when you're done (note the correct usage of your/you're!), and he writes your time on the board. No prizes, just pride on the line. Lots of fun. For me at least, since I was the first done every time.

I'm not all that great at math, but mental arithmetic has always been my thing, and the "drills" just cemented it in me for life.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Cheese@Sep 22 2005, 12:07 PM
well....jumping in with both feet....since teachers and educators decided it was harmful to below average students to have spelling bees and times table contests...it has become a "do what you can, sweety" world. We dont want to hurt the little darlings feelings now do we?

Did you ever do a spelling bee that included the word "mammary"? :P

See, CubeInmate? This is why internerds are so damn lazy -- it's bad form, not to mention really boring, to point out every spelling mistake and misplaced apostrophe.

I remember back in the SLAM days when 1/2 of the discussions (if you can call them that, which really you can't) would quickly become a fight over spelling.

They'd go something like this...

Bill said: "I think Weimer can score 35 goals this year if he plays with Fleury and gets powerplay time."

Tom said: "Who the hell is Weimer? Are you talking about Wiemer? You Clagary fans are so stupid".

Bill: "Oh sorry, "Tom". But I'm not from Clagary. Is it a nice place to visit"?

And on from there. I still think Wiemer can score 35 goals, btw.

Anyhow, Cube, I hear you about how internet language probably dumbs us down, but this is one excuse.

[4X4]

IMO, normal spelling (ur stupid), proper use of they're, their and there, separating thoughts into paragraphs, capitalization and punctuation makes for a better read. I just skip right over the posts that are a gigantic paragraph. I roll my eyes at the other mistakes when they are made repeatedly.

It's not a big deal. I know that I make plenty of mistakes too. I try to catch them, but I never will catch them all. Frankly, lazy typing and grammatical errors that you should have learned in elementary just make me think of hillbillies. "I dun never went to no school, and I ain't gunna start now!".

I don't mean to insult anyone. Just my opinion.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Sep 22 2005, 10:49 PM
Did you ever do a spelling bee that included the word "mammary"? :P

See, CubeInmate? This is why internerds are so damn lazy -- it's bad form, not to mention really boring, to point out every spelling mistake and misplaced apostrophe.

I remember back in the SLAM days when 1/2 of the discussions (if you can call them that, which really you can't) would quickly become a fight over spelling.

They'd go something like this...

Bill said: "I think Weimer can score 35 goals this year if he plays with Fleury and gets powerplay time."

Tom said: "Who the hell is Weimer? Are you talking about Wiemer? You Clagary fans are so stupid".

Bill: "Oh sorry, "Tom". But I'm not from Clagary. Is it a nice place to visit"?

And on from there. I still think Wiemer can score 35 goals, btw.

Anyhow, Cube, I hear you about how internet language probably dumbs us down, but this is one excuse.

was wondering when someone would call me on it! LOL..

My thoughts on Internet vs business Engrish....

On here I type fast...I dont have a lot of time to review/correct/massage my work....cuz you guyz donna paid me.

But I promise youz all...pay me...show me da money...and I will be gold. No errors at all....sorta.

[kootenayguy9]

As a teacher here in Calgary I don't really think that administator's email should be taken too seriously. There are many emails sent out in the school system that have many grammatical errors. Remember we are only human.

[MarchHare]

Originally posted by kootenayguy9@Sep 23 2005, 10:28 AM
As a teacher here in Calgary I don't really think that administator's email should be taken too seriously. There are many emails sent out in the school system that have many grammatical errors. Remember we are only human.

Maybe, but I don't write emails to my coworkers like that. If the consensus here appears to be that internet short-hand and jargon is having a negative effect on the writing abilities of students, shouldn't we expect educators to display at least a modicum of English profeciency? Nobody's asking for perfection; everyone makes simple typos and spelling mistakes, but what level of unprofessionalism are we willing to tolerate?