Funding Crunch in Education System

[Northendzone]

A huge part of the cost of education is tied to the funding of the pension plan and as previously mentioned teachers have negotiated an above average benefits plan.

As I recall, the fund is currently in a huge deficit.

I guess I don't mind the good teachers making an above average income - but I get annoyed when my kids have a teacher who seems to be just putting in time.

[loudi94]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

A huge part of the cost of education is tied to the funding of the pension plan and as previously mentioned teachers have negotiated an above average benefits plan.

As I recall, the fund is currently in a huge deficit.

I guess I don't mind the good teachers making an above average income - but I get annoyed when my kids have a teacher who seems to be just putting in time.

On average government contributes 13.46% of a teacher's salary to the plan. Government will contribute $377 million to the fund for the current services incurred. Average of $9500 per teacher.
Finance will also contribute $455 million for the pension liabilities for the pre-1992 services.

The annual budget for education was $7.4 billion in 2014.


"Seems to be putting in time"... is difficult to gauge. I've seen/been overwhelmed, exhausted, fatigued, etc. but sitting behind the scenes for almost 20 years, I haven't seen putting in time.
To be honest with you, feelings of efficacy is a big struggle right now with the best teachers. It has changed so much in practice and the needs of the children in a single class are so diverse, it quickly makes one feel like they don't make a difference. I teach grade 6. I have gone home many times this year feeling useless. There are not enough hours in the day to meet every kid's needs. You get to the point where you feel like you're spinning your wheels. I also have two kids of my own. To say my job has negatively impacted my ability to parent effectively is an understatement.
The only thing keeping the system from completely falling apart are the dedication and hard work by teachers (and assistants who are grossly underpaid), but it will eventually collapse into chaos. There are too many stresses on the system and it will break. I've mused before that one day we will read about a teacher that goes ####oo and does something tragically stupid...then we may see supports in place.

But, everyone has a tough life...I get it.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by ah123

Not arguing your question about where the money goes, but where do you get the average of 25 students per class?

The average of 25 isn't a global number, although I do remember seeing someone state it was closer to 30. Anyways, for every high school class of 40, there's a kindergarten class of 18, or a special needs group of 10. That number is also an average of every person who holds a teaching certificate in the school against every child. So your administrators, learning strategists, counselors, teacher librarians will count against that average as well.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by loudi94

On average government contributes 13.46% of a teacher's salary to the plan. Government will contribute $377 million to the fund for the current services incurred. Average of $9500 per teacher.
Finance will also contribute $455 million for the pension liabilities for the pre-1992 services.

The annual budget for education was $7.4 billion in 2014.


"Seems to be putting in time"... is difficult to gauge. I've seen/been overwhelmed, exhausted, fatigued, etc. but sitting behind the scenes for almost 20 years, I haven't seen putting in time.
To be honest with you, feelings of efficacy is a big struggle right now with the best teachers. It has changed so much in practice and the needs of the children in a single class are so diverse, it quickly makes one feel like they don't make a difference. I teach grade 6. I have gone home many times this year feeling useless. There are not enough hours in the day to meet every kid's needs. You get to the point where you feel like you're spinning your wheels. I also have two kids of my own. To say my job has negatively impacted my ability to parent effectively is an understatement.
The only thing keeping the system from completely falling apart are the dedication and hard work by teachers (and assistants who are grossly underpaid), but it will eventually collapse into chaos. There are too many stresses on the system and it will break. I've mused before that one day we will read about a teacher that goes ####oo and does something tragically stupid...then we may see supports in place.

But, everyone has a tough life...I get it.

I know full well I'm going to get flamed for this, bit here goes. There aren't enough hours in the school day is the problem. I have two kids in elementary and we're looking at six hours a day, and half days every Friday. In that six hours the kids do music, art, physical education, and of course the core subjects. It has to be jam packed! Then you factor in what feels like an endless stream of PD or organizational days. I joke that these kids are never in school actually doing school work. I do feel bad that the teachers can't keep up, but it's not hard to see why.

Then add in that we only get report cards twice a year. Basically parents have just found out what is actually taking place for their kids learning. The next report card is the last day of school, so essentially if things are lacking they have to be fixed immediately. It's a crazy amount of pressure to put on the teachers and students in my opinion. No more nipping it in the bud after the first report card. It's really a poor structure.

[loudi94]

Originally Posted by Slava

I know full well I'm going to get flamed for this, bit here goes. There aren't enough hours in the school day is the problem. I have two kids in elementary and we're looking at six hours a day, and half days every Friday. In that six hours the kids do music, art, physical education, and of course the core subjects. It has to be jam packed! Then you factor in what feels like an endless stream of PD or organizational days. I joke that these kids are never in school actually doing school work. I do feel bad that the teachers can't keep up, but it's not hard to see why.

Then add in that we only get report cards twice a year. Basically parents have just found out what is actually taking place for their kids learning. The next report card is the last day of school, so essentially if things are lacking they have to be fixed immediately. It's a crazy amount of pressure to put on the teachers and students in my opinion. No more nipping it in the bud after the first report card. It's really a poor structure.

In a homogeneous class, the system used to work as intended. Problem is we have classrooms with all sorts of diverse learners and little to no supports in place. As a parent it may not seem like it, but kids spend just as much time in class as I did as a student in the 80's. The hours and days haven't changed.

Reporting has changed significantly. Report cards suck. It takes around 30-40 hours to do them and they provide sweet tweet when it comes to feedback. They're a snapshot at best. I liken them to the Catholic that only goes to church on Christmas and Easter. Too little, too late.
I'm currently piloting an office hours idea. Make myself formally available on a weekly basis to call, meet or message.
As a parent I strongly encourage you to whip off an email every few weeks to your child's teacher to ask how things are going. I will reply to an email way before I initiate contact. That goes back to the overwhelmed part.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by loudi94

In a homogeneous class, the system used to work as intended. Problem is we have classrooms with all sorts of diverse learners and little to no supports in place. As a parent it may not seem like it, but kids spend just as much time in class as I did as a student in the 80's. The hours and days haven't changed.

Reporting has changed significantly. Report cards suck. It takes around 30-40 hours to do them and they provide sweet tweet when it comes to feedback. They're a snapshot at best. I liken them to the Catholic that only goes to church on Christmas and Easter. Too little, too late.
I'm currently piloting an office hours idea. Make myself formally available on a weekly basis to call, meet or message.
As a parent I strongly encourage you to whip off an email every few weeks to your child's teacher to ask how things are going. I will reply to an email way before I initiate contact. That goes back to the overwhelmed part.

I do agree with you on the report cards, and I would encourage you in that office hours kind of idea. I wish my childrens teachers took that kind of initiative!

I realise that I didn't go to school longer when I was a child. I just know that its not enough. Teachers were saying then how hard it was to stay caught up to the curriculum, so basically in 30 years we've made no progress that way. Thats silly. There is no legitimate reason that kids can't be in school say from 8-4 and participate in a variety of activities.

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Classroom averages are often determined by the amount of staff in the building divided by total students.

So if you have a teacher-librarian who does not teach a class, and/or a resource room teacher who is there to teach a small group of high needs students. Those teachers bring down that "Average" classroom size.

I teach a total of 88 students. The idea of trying to get a hold of each individual parent regularly is exhausting. I have a classroom website and weekly "general" blanket email home each week to update the parents of what is going on. For those individual "high need" or "at risk" students do warrant the time for special attention.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Slava

I do agree with you on the report cards, and I would encourage you in that office hours kind of idea. I wish my childrens teachers took that kind of initiative!

I realise that I didn't go to school longer when I was a child. I just know that its not enough. Teachers were saying then how hard it was to stay caught up to the curriculum, so basically in 30 years we've made no progress that way. Thats silly. There is no legitimate reason that kids can't be in school say from 8-4 and participate in a variety of activities.

Adding more instructional hours doesn't really have a benefit. You might be able to cover more material, but children are going to have trouble absorbing it and are more likely be be burnt out from 8 hour days than they are to benefit from any extra material. Finland is often brought up as one of the model education systems and they have among the fewest instructional hours in the world, particularly among elementary age students.

If teachers are having trouble fitting the material in, I'd hazard a guess that it's a combination of a few things. One, teachers having to spend a lot of their time on a few students who need extra help which leaves less time for the bulk of the class. Also an increased focus on standardized tests as a means of evaluation can mean more time is spent on test preparation which squeezes out the time available for the rest of the material. And in some cases, teachers themselves are implementing poorly designed lesson plans which can make things take longer than they need to. This is sometimes the case with older teachers whose methods haven't changed to suit a modern curriculum. Teachers that barely understand how to use a computer will tend to have trouble teaching technology efficiently, as an example.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Slava

Then add in that we only get report cards twice a year. Basically parents have just found out what is actually taking place for their kids learning. The next report card is the last day of school, so essentially if things are lacking they have to be fixed immediately. It's a crazy amount of pressure to put on the teachers and students in my opinion. No more nipping it in the bud after the first report card. It's really a poor structure.

I am sure our kids get report cards 4 x a year. We also have parent teacher interviews between them. I am going from memory, but it seems like we meet or correspond with the teach every 6 weeks or so.

Is there a mandated number of report cards per year?

I will say that I don't have the same frustrations as Slava. I feel like we have a good knowledge of what is going on with our kids, I don't always agree with the work they do ie: cerial box book report in grade 6....

[Slava]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Adding more instructional hours doesn't really have a benefit. You might be able to cover more material, but children are going to have trouble absorbing it and are more likely be be burnt out from 8 hour days than they are to benefit from any extra material. Finland is often brought up as one of the model education systems and they have among the fewest instructional hours in the world, particularly among elementary age students.

If teachers are having trouble fitting the material in, I'd hazard a guess that it's a combination of a few things. One, teachers having to spend a lot of their time on a few students who need extra help which leaves less time for the bulk of the class. Also an increased focus on standardized tests as a means of evaluation can mean more time is spent on test preparation which squeezes out the time available for the rest of the material. And in some cases, teachers themselves are implementing poorly designed lesson plans which can make things take longer than they need to. This is sometimes the case with older teachers whose methods haven't changed to suit a modern curriculum. Teachers that barely understand how to use a computer will tend to have trouble teaching technology efficiently, as an example.

The thing for me is that instructional hours is somewhat vague. I actually think that the kids could be doing more hands-on learning and activities. Things like art, music, gym, etc. that break up the day and give the kids a wider perspective in general. Science classes where the kids are doing experiments and applying some of the knowledge. I fully realise that 8 hours of lecture and sitting still is impossible, but that time could definitely be used constructively so that the kids are learning without even realising it.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am sure our kids get report cards 4 x a year. We also have parent teacher interviews between them. I am going from memory, but it seems like we meet or correspond with the teach every 6 weeks or so.

Is there a mandated number of report cards per year?

I will say that I don't have the same frustrations as Slava. I feel like we have a good knowledge of what is going on with our kids, I don't always agree with the work they do ie: cerial box book report in grade 6....

The report card issue could well be a CBE concern. I just know that its ridiculous.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Slava

The report card issue could well be a CBE concern. I just know that its ridiculous.

Agreed, if you only comminicate with your kids teachers 2 x a year that is nuts.

[ma-skis.com]

I think the funding crunch has to do with the practicalities of running a school vs a business.

You have to have schools across the city, regardless of how efficient or what capacity a school is at. If a school is still running at 75% capacity, it runs. It takes quite a drop in enrollment to close a school since that is essentially moving what could be 100-200 children out of their neighbourhood.

Shaw is closing centers in Calgary / Vancouver etc, because from a financial point of view, it doesn't make sense to keep them here. They can operate somewhere else for less while still maintaining the same efficiency.

I imagine too, that the cuts are going to affect your shop, art, and tech classes first and foremost. Math classes are notoriously cheap to run. But I would imagine that any tech class is siginificantly more expensive to run, given that class size would be forced down due to safety, while equipment and maintenance costs shoot up. All with the understanding that those courses don't actually turn a profit the way an automotive shop would.

Just some thoughts.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Agreed, if you only comminicate with your kids teachers 2 x a year that is nuts.

We definitely communicate with the teachers more than twice a year, but the thing is that the yardstick to measure how the kids are doing is only coming out twice a year. So the conversations might not point to any major concerns, but then the report card comes to you halfway through the year and you see a 2/5 in an area. That's my frustration; you don't find out about things like that until its too late to address them in a meaningful way.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Slava

We definitely communicate with the teachers more than twice a year, but the thing is that the yardstick to measure how the kids are doing is only coming out twice a year. So the conversations might not point to any major concerns, but then the report card comes to you halfway through the year and you see a 2/5 in an area. That's my frustration; you don't find out about things like that until its too late to address them in a meaningful way.

Wasn't a shot at you or your interest in your child's education.


For us, both kid's school have the same thing 4 rpt cards, and then between them parent/teacher interviews (often the child is present for the interveiw). I actually like the interview more than the report card.

The teacher presents examples of the child's work and how it stacks up to the measure. It allows a discussion and dialogue with all 3 parties (parents/teacher/student).

[DataDoxy]

Interesting conversations about assessment... Currently, schools in many countries are changing assessments moving away from grades towards competencies, which we have seen evidence of at some schools in Calgary already. The idea behind it is to have all students work towards mastery as opposed to giving them a grade when the unit is over and moving them on regardless of the level of understanding they have earned. This way, if kids need more time to learn and master a concept they can have it, while the kids who are ready to move on, can. This idea leads to the conversation about changing the way we educate kids altogether looking changing our current one-size-fits-all model to a model that allows students to progress at different rates. (Some leading countries are already doing this). Given we know different brains learn in different ways and at different rates, this idea seems to make sense. However, it leads to complexities and questions about how to accommodate all kids. This is especially interesting given the new mandate on Inclusion from Alberta Education which is just around the corner. The goal will be to have all kids all kids, including diverse learners, included and supported inside the classroom.

Anyways.... I am curious to know what people think about the idea of gradeless report cards. I also want to know how frequently reporting intervals should be so that parents, teachers and students know where they are at.

[undercoverbrother]

I wonder if there is the ability to do an ongoing/online report card. It could be accessable to both the parent and teacher. The teacher could easily update it at shorter intervals, and the parents could access it.

[loudi94]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I wonder if there is the ability to do an ongoing/online report card. It could be accessable to both the parent and teacher. The teacher could easily update it at shorter intervals, and the parents could access it.

This is being done almost exclusively in jr high and high school. We are currently using Home Logic. Other use PowerSchool. It's in the elementary schools that are outcomes based.


I grade as little as possible. When you look at it objectively, grading does not jive with learning. It's certainly counter from how I was taught and how I first started teaching, but providing feedback and focussing on the process has resulted in greater engagement and collaboration in my class. A mark on a paper tells you way less than a meaningful discussion. It's still a hard sell, but what the heck, it's worth doing.

[chid]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Agreed, if you only comminicate with your kids teachers 2 x a year that is nuts.

Report Cards aren't, and should NOT be the only form of "communication" between student/parent/teacher. I email back and forth daily, weekly, bi-weekly, and monthly depending on the student, so the communication is constant.

Report Cards are a summative report, but if as a parent you haven't spoken to your child's teacher before the first report card in January, there is a problem.

Schools try to have PT Conferences between them, so for example, my school has Meet the Teacher / Welcome Back BBQ in Sept. We then have conferences late November / December. Reports go out end of Jan. We are meeting again in March for conferences, and then June report. Between those times there should be a dialogue happening. If not, someone is not doing their job (parent or teacher)

[Russic]

If you want to talk inefficiency, here's a fun fact: did you know if you pose the question of how many teachers are currently employed by the Calgary Board of Education, you can't actually get an answer? The number fluctuates depending on who you ask by thousands.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by chid

Report Cards aren't, and should NOT be the only form of "communication" between student/parent/teacher. I email back and forth daily, weekly, bi-weekly, and monthly depending on the student, so the communication is constant.

Report Cards are a summative report, but if as a parent you haven't spoken to your child's teacher before the first report card in January, there is a problem.

Schools try to have PT Conferences between them, so for example, my school has Meet the Teacher / Welcome Back BBQ in Sept. We then have conferences late November / December. Reports go out end of Jan. We are meeting again in March for conferences, and then June report. Between those times there should be a dialogue happening. If not, someone is not doing their job (parent or teacher)

I know that you teach, so maybe you can tell me, was there a review period for teachers around the end of January as well? Maybe for newer teachers? Its interesting, but we had heard basically nothing for our daughter and then all of a sudden we get emails and notes and an actual flow of information. I just wonder if something was said somewhere and now we have some action?

I go to all of the events at the school (basically) and we've set up our own meetings with the teachers and things like that. We've always said that if there are any issues at all here is our email, please let us know. We've volunteered in the classes, sent notes and heard almost nothing until it was too late (at least IMO). Then all of a sudden we started hearing what was happening (both good and bad). Made me wonder.