Dilemma: Supporting the Calgary Flames after Mount Polley mine disaster

[Hackey]

The 5 million cubic meters of toxic sludge should be getting people more fired up than this poster.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

As a life long Calgary Flames fan and a 10-year resident of British Columbia, I awoke this morning with a serious dilemma

Well, it was nice having you around here for the past 4 years, I assume as you are denouncing the Flames we will not hear from you much anymore.

Personally I believe we all should do more to improve the state of the environment, and I can be the first to admit I do not do enough. It is really hard to do enough, and most of us just are not good at doing hard things.

But in general I would say this is a bad way to focus energy.


Reduce Personal Waste
Grow Some of your own food.
Limit your Single Occupancy Vehicle commuting
Pay extra on your power bill for Wind/Hydro
Lobby for Safe Nuclear power.
Donate to Future Energy, or Bio Engineering research.


There are so many things on so many different levels that can have a much greater impact than a guy in Vancouver no longer watching Flames Games on CBC or Reading TSN articles.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Why would you assume I just want to gripe and don't want to make any actual sacrifice? If I didn't care, I wouldn't have posted anything at all. But I do care. I do want to make an impact, insignificant as my pockets may allow for, I still want to stand where I feel morally sound in doing so.

I know how easy it is to just make a snarky response like yours. But I want to do something. that's why I posted. Maybe I don't know how to fight back, maybe I don't know the best way to influence things right now. But it least I can be thankful I don't have an attitude like yours. You don't need to #### on my worries man.

If you want to make a difference, join a political party. Doesn't matter which one.

And then write letters (not emails but actual letters) to local, provincial, and federal politicians and candidates. Tell them that you are a party member and that you will be voting based entirely on environmental issues. Write members and candidates from other parties, and tell them that you are a member of another party but will swing your vote on environmental issues.

Go to Town Hall forums on environmental issues.

Make the environment your political issue, and vote on it.

You can do all of this for about 1/4 the price of the crappy new 3rd jersey (which, of course, I wouldn't suggest buying anyways, its just an example).

The world is run by those who show up.

Big business doesn't sway government because they have money. They away government because they are engaged with the system full-time, not for half an hour one afternoon once every four years.

[bc-chris]

as a resident of bc since 1986, i still fully support 'my' calgary flames!!

GO FLAMES GO!!

[devel]

The catastrophe that happened at Mt Polly mine leaves me speechless...just devastating. I also grew up in that area before moving to AB to go to university many years ago. Still have lots of family members and friends in the area, some who actually work(ed) at the mine. All of them are and will be affected by the short and long term effects of this disaster.

What can anyone say to make it better? In my opinion, nothing. Personally I don't care if I hear an apology from Edwards. I don't want empty words. I want to see action. Get to work and get it cleaned up, research why it happened, how to prevent it from ever happening again, etc.. I want to see the company do the right thing and put the resources into cleanup and future prevention.

Shortly after moving to Calgary I became a Flames fan...could not stand the rioting Canuck fans. Anyway, I never knew Edwards was the controlling stock owner of the mine until reading it in an article about the tailings pond breach. Although I am sickened by the disaster it never crossed my mind to boycott the Calgary Flames because of it.

I love the Flames, watch practically every game they play. Can recognize all of the players, even a lot of the prospects coming up. I watch because of the players on the ice, the coaching, the game, etc. and I appreciate the good things the players and management do in the community. Maybe I'm not a hardcore enough fan, but I couldn't tell you what Edwards even looks like. For myself, he's not a factor in why the Flames are my team.

I would support any actions against Imperial Metals by the government and people affected by the breach but for me, the Flames are a separate entity and have nothing in common except for a common share holder. If you feel guilty about that then maybe it is time for you to move on from the Flames. Hockey is entertainment, not something that should give you stress or feelings of guilt if you support a team.

[troutman]

What if your owner was racist? Ex. Clippers

[dammage79]

^ well said. (Devels post)

OP, sounds like you're already going to jump ship anyways and are looking for anything or anyone to help you come down off of that ledge. No one can convince you otherwise, you're going to have to make this choice on your own.

[drewtastic]

Is the expectation that, for one to be ethical, one cannot support ANY endeavour that is, in some way, linked to a businessman or business-group that may commit unethical acts? If this is the implication, then I fear that you will have to disassociate yourself from several more affiliations/interests that you currently possess...

In large part, only those who have made their fortunes in business can afford to throw money towards entertainment-based industries, like sports. It would be foolish to think that 100% of these owners/financiers have been completely scrupulous in their non-sports related businesses.

Having said this, is it not possible both to support certain aspects of an individual's work, and not others? Certainly, the Mount Polley situation is abhorrent. However, could not this situation and the fact that Edwards also has a share in the Flames be considered two separate entities?

I think many of us have struggled with dilemmas like these. My point here is that it is possible to condemn a person's involvement with one event while supporting the same person's involvement with another.

With respect to the greater environmental discussion, if this issue is as important to you as it seems to be, then you are doing well to continue to discuss, debate and share your opinions. If Edwards turns out to be especially negligent in this situation, then it is possible to call him out on it while still supporting the Flames' players. I think most of us on here would do so if anyone affiliated with the team committed a wrong away from the team.

[Chill Cosby]

Considering Murray Edwards is a huge player in the Oilsands, I would find it odd to denounce the Flames NOW on the grounds of a company he invests in doing damage to the environment.

Either way, if your conviction is strong, don't follow the Flames. You're not making any impact by doing that other than satisfying your own moral comfort, but sometimes that is very important.

Though, to be perfectly honest, and I mean absolutely no offence by this: If your conviction was strong, you wouldn't be asking a Flames fan message board what to do. Just do it or don't, you're the one who has to live with the morality of your decision. It's just a hockey team. If cheering for a team causes you an actual moral dilemma, drop the team. It's only entertainment.

[SebC]

You might think that this event would've knocked BCers off their high horse, but instead it's Alberta's fault because one Calgarian owns 36% of the company's stock.

It is hypocritical for BC to oppose Alberta's industry while taking similar environmental risks for their own economic gain.

[burn_this_city]

The OP's attitude is common in the lower mainland and island. People there have the impression that BC is some untouched pristine wilderness and Alberta is a toxic wasteland. It's a joke, BC is covered in mines and logging cutblocks.

[PeteMoss]

Do what makes you happy.

Just be aware you are very unlikely to find a team that's 'clean'. The Oilers have a GM who killed someone while drinking and driving. The Canucks have fans who trashed the city when they lost the cup a while back. Etc, etc.

For the most part sports fandom isn't entirely logically. Most of us are cheering on a team only because they happen to play close by.

[Zarley]

It's certainly interesting that this event hasn't sparked a national debate on BC's destructive mining industry similar to when that flock of birds landed on an oil sands tailings pond.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The OP's attitude is common in the lower mainland and island. People there have the impression that BC is some untouched pristine wilderness and Alberta is a toxic wasteland. It's a joke, BC is covered in mines and logging cutblocks.

And for every "Damn Albertan" that's over in BC in Comox or wherever, there are two young BC men over here in Alberta making a killing on the rigs.

It's tiring to constantly read this kind of garbage where it's always Albertans that don't give a crap, and are the worst polluters in Canada. I bet there are less Albertans working in the Oilsands than BCers, Newfs, other Maritimers, and Ontarians. Meanwhile, a good portion of the construction industry is from Quebec.

So how exactly is it that Albertans are the polluters and the rednecks, when a huge chunk of our population are recent transplants here to get rich quick? Next time you see one of Alberta's famous "jacked up F-350s with a white sunglasses and affliction shirt wearing driver", check the license plate. Half of them are from BC or Sask, or NS.

As for the BS "Alberta" comment in the OP, with an ignorant attitude like that, I'm glad you're no longer an Albertan, and a Flames fan.

[Robbob]

the environmental debates always tend to be frustrating because people don't always have all the information or base it on a single sides argument. There is no doubt that a healthy debate is necessary but I think it would be more beneficial if people knew about their backyard before casting stones at Alberta. Being in the 21st century and not having a sewage treatment plant for Victoria makes me shake my head when people from that city complain about potential dumps or spills into the ocean.

[Tyler]

Spend to the cap or look after the environment in BC?

Sorry fishes, but we need a #1 centre

[chedder]

Originally Posted by SebC

You might think that this event would've knocked BCers off their high horse, but instead it's Alberta's fault because one Calgarian owns 36% of the company's stock.

It is hypocritical for BC to oppose Alberta's industry while taking similar environmental risks for their own economic gain.

Exactly this. The hypocrisy of some (BC) people is laughable. The op will fit in perfectly as a canucklehead fan. Good riddance.

[Lord Carnage]

I guess my thought is, unless someone finds an email sent by Murray Edwards saying, "... though you believe that there is a good chance the tailing pond is going breach, I do not believe the odds are high enough to warrant action." or something like that, then Murray Edwards is just a significant shareholder in a company where this happened...

The employees made the decisions around the pond itself, and whether it was done poorly, or there is some unexpected reason that this happened, it really can't be laid at Murray Edwards feet.

My opinion.

Oh - and that article itself - holy "agenda based" reporting. The entire article is meant to point the finger at Albertans for the problem. It is stuff like that article that widens the rift between business and environmental proponents.

[Hackey]

5 million cubic meters of toxic sludge dumped onto our land and were bitching about each other now.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hackey

5 million cubic meters of toxic sludge dumped onto our land and were bitching about each other now.

Huh? Check out the OP, he come on here and attacked Albertans and is denouncing his love of the Flames because of this breach that happened in BC. How did you or he think this was going to go?