Lombardi was told not to hire Sutter in L.A.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Well there were rumors Sutter was going to step back behind the bench instead of hiring Brent (which was what King and co wanted). Gotta wonder how that might have turned out at the time...surely couldn't have gone any worse.

I think Treliving has come into a much better situation than Sutter had. There is no pressure to immediately succeed and if there is interference at least it will come from a veteran hockey guy.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Example #1 why you let hockey guys make hockey decisions and ownership types should stay far away.....but glad that he is in Toronto now.







http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/06/2...-darryl-sutter

LOL. Do you know how many championships they won under Lieweke? (Talking MLS, NBA, NHL)

The funny thing is, this is by Simmons. Lieweke a few weeks ago told Simmons he's not a hockey guy and shouldn't make the decisions. That's why he brought in Shanahan. Now Simmons is saying Lieweke made a bad hockey call. This is news? He told Steve he doesn't know enough about the sport.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Best coach since Bowman. The things he did on the way to all of his cups and finals is downright legendary. I don't know what qualifies Tim liweke in his role as sports President guru guy, but this kind of thing makes you look like a big dummy. Also, doesn't he already want out of Toronto? Seems like a bit of an insubstantial flake.

First I've heard.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by sharkov

Dean Lombardi was a joke until 2012. Now he has the right to be smug

That's the thing that Simmons is glossing-over. Lombardi was on the cusp of being fired. His team was out of the playoffs. Saying if he's wrong, it'll cost him his job was right. The comment was made 2 and a half years ago. It was correct. Simmons is trying to paint it in June of 2014 after 2 cups as some outrageous thought.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by pylon

I sill believe the Phaneuf trade was one of his best moves. The return at the time was sucky, but thank god his Spidey senses went off on Dion and got him the hell out of here. I would rather have a bad return for Dion, than Dion.

So you're happy he contacted no other Gms except the Leafs? Sutter needed to get young talent back for Dion. Brutal trade.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'm not buying that. While there were plenty of signs that Phaneuf needed to go, his reputation around the league was still fairly good. He was definitely no where near the "dump at all costs" stage, and still had some good value...highly touted defenseman like that always get a second chance. The worst thing was when other GM's were saying they they had no idea Phaneuf was even on the market. Talk about terrible asset management.

I wanted him gone as much as the next guy, but the return was absolutely trash...and it didn't have to be. That trade set this franchise back a good two years because they wanted the wrong types of assets coming back. It's a trade that needed to happen, but it was executed all wrong.

Sutter's accomplishments as a coach are legendary. His GM duties on the other hand are highly suspect.

Yup. Bang on. Many comments right after the trade from GMs saying they had no idea he was available.

Another example is Tyler Myers. He's regressed for 4 years after his big rookie season and has a big contract. Yet he'll get Buffalo back a big package if they trade him this week (Rumours are they may).

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

And example #2 why you shouldn't believe anything Steve Simmons writes. He doesn't quote anybody but puts quotes around comments. This to me is just Simmons using this as a shot at Lieweke. Title should said "speculation that Lombardi was told not to hire Sutter".

Yup. That's horrific journalism. He put quotes around his made-up interpretation of a conversation.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Combo blocker

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by pylon

I don't disagree with that, but at the time people were coining it as Gilmour for Leeman V 2.0. Not even close.

I agree completely, it is also now looking like Stajan will be a key leader in a rebuild and could be here for 8+ years when it's all said and done.

Do you know what the worst part of the trade was IMO? The fact Brent Sutter was coaching them. He almost destroyed Stajan and he did destroy Hagman IMO. If Keenan was still in Calgary I think we would have seen the deal in a completely different light. That being that we got 2/3 of a 2nd line and a top 4 defenseman.

That said if Keenan was still here I don't think they would have needed to trade Phaneuf.

[neo45]

Nah Hagman was always awful. He looked like he was playing street hockey. Refused to use his team mates and would try to beat everybody one on one. It worked about once per season. I agree about Stajan though

Ian White's career went to crap really fast, but he was considered the biggest piece at the time of the trade

[T@T]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

LOL. Do you know how many championships they won under Lieweke? (Talking MLS, NBA, NHL)

The funny thing is, this is by Simmons. Lieweke a few weeks ago told Simmons he's not a hockey guy and shouldn't make the decisions. That's why he brought in Shanahan. Now Simmons is saying Lieweke made a bad hockey call. This is news? He told Steve he doesn't know enough about the sport.

Personally I have a hard time believing Lieweke would give a tool like Simmons the time of day let alone tell him anything personal.

[Read Only]

Lieweje has been shown to be an idiot when outside of LA so no surprise he was dumb enough to think Sutter was a bad hire.

Lieweke may know something about business but he certainly is an idiot when it comes to sports.

[squiggs96]

I am glad that we are finally able to start discussing and debating the Phaneuf trade.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Read Only

Lieweje has been shown to be an idiot when outside of LA so no surprise he was dumb enough to think Sutter was a bad hire.

Lieweke may know something about business but he certainly is an idiot when it comes to sports.

Yet his businesses he runs have won a lot.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by T@T

Personally I have a hard time believing Lieweke would give a tool like Simmons the time of day let alone tell him anything personal.

What I meant was Lieweke at the Shanahan press conference admitted he did not know enough about hockey to make the calls. Simmons was in the front row asking questions.

[LouCypher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I think Treliving has come into a much better situation than Sutter had. There is no pressure to immediately succeed and if there is interference at least it will come from a veteran hockey guy.

I agree with this, especially when considering that Sutter had to lay quite a bit of groundwork in his days as GM to improve the scouting department and update hockey operations...now Treliving gets to come in with much more support and potentially less work having to update the organization and its practices to today's standards.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by pylon

I sill believe the Phaneuf trade was one of his best moves. The return at the time was sucky, but thank god his Spidey senses went off on Dion and got him the hell out of here. I would rather have a bad return for Dion, than Dion.

In retrospect, maybe, but at the time, Dion was still a valuable commodity, and almost certainly could have been had for a better return than a pile of spare parts.

[FAN]

A lot of Kings fans were speculating over Lombardi's future at the time. Lombardi was likely a year or two away from being fired if the Kings didn't make progress in the playoffs.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

That said if Keenan was still here I don't think they would have needed to trade Phaneuf.

Not really. The day Bouwmeester was signed, a lot of us questioned the ability to keep both Bouwmeester and Phaneuf given their respective cap hits. Most of us speculated that there must be another move planned because the Flames were trying to win the Cup that season and the team lacked scoring depth. But if you weren't trading Phaneuf there weren't too many options left. Besides Langkow who was coming off a bad season but was still a 2nd line center, there really wasn't anyone who was overpaid. Regehr was still a prime shutdown defenseman at a great cap hit, Jokinen was just acquired, Kipper was still an elite goalie, and Sarich looked capable of being the team's #4 and his cap hit was a reasonable $3.6M. Not to mention the NMCs that those guys had.

Unfortunately, we hired the wrong coach and there was a rush to win the Cup. Otherwise, the team could have kept both and would have secured the team's defensive future for years and wait until 11-12 to have the cap room to fill out the team or trade Phaneuf for a package that involved some futures.

[Erick Estrada]

Lombardi did an okay job assembling talent but he was missing on his coaching hires as Crawford was a terrible choice and Terry Murray stifled the team offensively. I don't buy that he is garbage at all as he assembled a two time Stanley Cup winner from the ground up without once picking first overall and it simply took a matter of getting the right coach. No different than when the Hawks hired Quenneville.