It's going to keep happening as long as the program is ridiculous, so forever.
Ya I've always wondered why people get so upset about this. Is it just you like the tradition of calling it "retiring a jersey"? They're basically the exact same thing aren't they? There's a ceremony where people thank a person who gave a lot to the team?
Lidstrom was a monster. He would check you and have the puck to a forward at the far blueline before you even knew what happened. Retire at 40 and still at the top of his game. He could probably come back and still be one of the best. I kinda hoped he would step in for Team Sweden.
Ya I've always wondered why people get so upset about this. Is it just you like the tradition of calling it "retiring a jersey"? They're basically the exact same thing aren't they? There's a ceremony where people thank a person who gave a lot to the team?
For one, forever a flame is hokey sounding. But I could get over that. The problem is we've retired a couple jerseys already, and it feels like it is a two tier system. Nieuwendyk in that second tier is just fine. Macinnis, though, leaves a bad taste being in that second tier. But I would say the biggest reason most people hate it is the fear that #12 will not be in the rafters with #9 and #30. That just seems like blasphemy. And also, no one should ever wear 12 in Calgary again.
For one, forever a flame is hokey sounding. But I could get over that. The problem is we've retired a couple jerseys already, and it feels like it is a two tier system. Nieuwendyk in that second tier is just fine. Macinnis, though, leaves a bad taste being in that second tier. But I would say the biggest reason most people hate it is the fear that #12 will not be in the rafters with #9 and #30. That just seems like blasphemy. And also, no one should ever wear 12 in Calgary again.
Again this is what I'm missing. The forever a flame people get their names in the rafters. It's the exact same thing with an admittedly goofy name, no?
It's like when they managed to convince everyone to refer to the nosebleeds as "press level" like it was some sort of advantage. Silly, yes, but does it really matter?
Explain again why the program is rediculous, or did you just say it's so?
Because hockey has a tradition of hanging a player's number, it's called retiring. Hanging a player's number, but not retiring it, even though it's hanging up beside legitimate retirements is ridiculous.
Do something else to honour a player, don't diminish the fully retired player numbers by hanging a bunch of "sorta's" beside them.
Because hockey has a tradition of hanging a player's number, it's called retiring. Hanging a player's number, but not retiring it, even though it's hanging up beside legitimate retirements is ridiculous.
Do something else to honour a player, don't diminish the fully retired player numbers by hanging a bunch of "sorta's" beside them.
I really am missing something here.
Is your complaint that "Forever a Flame" doesn't inherently mean that the jersey number is off limits, whereas retiring it does?
Is your complaint that "Forever a Flame" doesn't inherently mean that the jersey number is off limits, whereas retiring it does?
My complaint is that they go through the exact same process as a jersey retirement, including hanging a player number, but it's not retired. So if someone comes in, they look up and see 30, 9, 2, 25 what do they think? Retired numbers. Except not really, only numbers X and X. And then what are they going to do with 12 ... not fully retire it? They're painting themselves into a corner.
I'm all for a Forever a Flame program where they honour players that were great, but not all time Flame greats. However there should be a distinct difference between how those players are honoured and how players who deserve their numbers retired are honoured. A number should be in the rafters for one reason, because it's retired and now it's off limits. Not because he was an awesome player for us for a while.
My complaint is that they go through the exact same process as a jersey retirement, including hanging a player number, but it's not retired. So if someone comes in, they look up and see 30, 9, 2, 25 what do they think? Retired numbers. Except not really, only numbers X and X. And then what are they going to do with 12 ... not fully retire it? They're painting themselves into a corner.
I'm all for a Forever a Flame program where they honour players that were great, but not all time Flame greats. However there should be a distinct difference between how those players are honoured and how players who deserve their numbers retired are honoured. A number should be in the rafters for one reason, because it's retired and now it's off limits. Not because he was an awesome player for us for a while.
So if they made it so "Forever a Flame" meant the # was untouchable, that would be OK with you? Then it would just semantics, right?
So if they made it so "Forever a Flame" meant the # was untouchable, that would be OK with you? Then it would just semantics, right?
That would all be retirements, and yes, if they decided to call their jersey retirements Forever a Flame, that would be fine (as much as I think the name is silly). It's not the name, it's the two tiers of player celebration with the lower tier taking the exact same appearance as a time honoured hockey (and sports) tradition.
That would all be retirements, and yes, if they decided to call their jersey retirements Forever a Flame, that would be fine (as much as I think the name is silly). It's not the name, it's the two tiers of player celebration with the lower tier taking the exact same appearance as a time honoured hockey (and sports) tradition.
That's the thing, is retiring a number transcends hockey. If I am in Hawaii in 40 years with my American grandkids and run into Jarome Iginla at a restaurant, and they say "Who is that Grandpa?" I'd think it would sound a lot better to say he was one of the Flames all time greats, and one of only 5 guys to have their number retired by the Calgary Flames than... That's Jarome Iginla, he is Forever a Flame!
My complaint is that they go through the exact same process as a jersey retirement, including hanging a player number, but it's not retired. So if someone comes in, they look up and see 30, 9, 2, 25 what do they think? Retired numbers. Except not really, only numbers X and X. And then what are they going to do with 12 ... not fully retire it? They're painting themselves into a corner.
I'm all for a Forever a Flame program where they honour players that were great, but not all time Flame greats. However there should be a distinct difference between how those players are honoured and how players who deserve their numbers retired are honoured. A number should be in the rafters for one reason, because it's retired and now it's off limits. Not because he was an awesome player for us for a while.
I would say Montreal has painted themselves into a corner. You have teams trying to discourage players from wearing high numbers yet most of the Canadians have to wear numbers in the 50s and up because the Habs have retired so many jerseys.
The Flames aren't the first to honor a player by just honoring him. The Maple Leafs honor a player by having a ceremony akin to a jersey retirement. They just call it honoring the player and don't have a fancy name like the Flames' Forever a Flame program.
There will be plenty of players, such as Iginla, that if they were only a part of the Forever A Flame program, you can bet that nobody will try to take that number and/or somebody in the organization will discourage somebody from taking #12.
I would say Montreal has painted themselves into a corner. You have teams trying to discourage players from wearing high numbers yet most of the Canadians have to wear numbers in the 50s and up because the Habs have retired so many jerseys.
The Flames aren't the first to honor a player by just honoring him. The Maple Leafs honor a player by having a ceremony akin to a jersey retirement. They just call it honoring the player and don't have a fancy name like the Flames' Forever a Flame program.
There will be plenty of players, such as Iginla, that if they were only a part of the Forever A Flame program, you can bet that nobody will try to take that number and/or somebody in the organization will discourage somebody from taking #12.
I'm pretty sure Montreal is fine with their players wearing high numbers when they look up at 24 banners and a ton of hall of famers retired. I would kill for that "problem"
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