Nutrition

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Almost none of that seemed appealling... so I sorta built my own:
Day 1: "Breakfast: 3 eggs, 3 egg whites, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, soy chicken breast, grapes; Dinner: veggie wrap x 2, Snack: almonds"
Day 2: "Breakfast: Smoothie with berries and whey powder, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, vegetarian chilli with tofu; Dinner: green beans, quinoa, vegetarian ribs Snack: apple, hard boiled eggs

I haven't run that diet by anybody.... I was going to run it by the dietician yesterday until I realized that she had her own meal plan she wanted me to use and wasn't interested in seeing what I drew up.

My personal opinion is the diet is ok for the short term, although your carb count is incredibly low with your version (particularly on day 1). The only important thing to ask though is whether that is sustainable for you? It is difficult to calculate your caloric intake without knowing your portion sizes, but my initial guess is your version would barely be hitting 1500 calories. Perhaps fitting in 4 meals and a snack would be ideal?

Also, is your goal to lose the desired weight and then slowly integrate more carbs such as brown rice and sweet potato?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

How is that? Eggs and dairy are not starchy carbs.

Knowing that I was vegetarian, the PT did give me a second sheet, but it was more geared towards vegans:
Day 1: "Breakfast: 1/3 cup of oatmeal, protein shake with flaxmeal, 3oz berries; Lunch: 2 small muffins, unsalted sunflower seeds, nutmilk, cucumber; Dinner: large salad with avacado"
Day 2: "Breakfast: Half an english muffin with 3 tbsp of almond butter, veggies with hummus; Lunch: protein shake, nutmilk, lentil salad; Dinner: sweet potato, steamed zucchini, beet salad with flax oil dressing"

Almost none of that seemed appealling... so I sorta built my own:
Day 1: "Breakfast: 3 eggs, 3 egg whites, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, soy chicken breast, grapes; Dinner: veggie wrap x 2, Snack: almonds"
Day 2: "Breakfast: Smoothie with berries and whey powder, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, vegetarian chilli with tofu; Dinner: green beans, quinoa, vegetarian ribs Snack: apple, hard boiled eggs

I haven't run that diet by anybody.... I was going to run it by the dietician yesterday until I realized that she had her own meal plan she wanted me to use and wasn't interested in seeing what I drew up.

If that's the case, then she is a pretty terrible dietician. A good one should be willing to work with you to find meal plans that they think meet your dietary needs, and are both convenient and appealing for you. If it doesn't fit those last two criteria, she might as well tell you to eat nothing but unicorn steaks, because you aren't gonna be able to stick to either.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

How is that? Eggs and dairy are not starchy carbs.

Knowing that I was vegetarian, the PT did give me a second sheet, but it was more geared towards vegans:
Day 1: "Breakfast: 1/3 cup of oatmeal, protein shake with flaxmeal, 3oz berries; Lunch: 2 small muffins, unsalted sunflower seeds, nutmilk, cucumber; Dinner: large salad with avacado"
Day 2: "Breakfast: Half an english muffin with 3 tbsp of almond butter, veggies with hummus; Lunch: protein shake, nutmilk, lentil salad; Dinner: sweet potato, steamed zucchini, beet salad with flax oil dressing"

Almost none of that seemed appealling... so I sorta built my own:
Day 1: "Breakfast: 3 eggs, 3 egg whites, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, soy chicken breast, grapes; Dinner: veggie wrap x 2, Snack: almonds"
Day 2: "Breakfast: Smoothie with berries and whey powder, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, vegetarian chilli with tofu; Dinner: green beans, quinoa, vegetarian ribs Snack: apple, hard boiled eggs

I haven't run that diet by anybody.... I was going to run it by the dietician yesterday until I realized that she had her own meal plan she wanted me to use and wasn't interested in seeing what I drew up.

Try and add up the total calories from what you're eating. Keep in mind that many vegetables have almost no calories. The calories come from what they are cooked in, dressed with, wrapped in, etc...

If your calories are way below maintenance, you're going to feel dizzy, tired, and weak. In order to lose fat, you need to be below maintenance, but you don't want to go too far below. The feelings of weakness and fatigue may be your metabolism shutting down, if your calorie intake is too low. However, what you're feeling could just be an adjustment period. It's not possible to tell without more details of what you're eating.

Other tips I always suggest is to find sauces and condiments that are low in calories. Many mustards and hot sauces have virtually no calories.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Almost none of that seemed appealling... so I sorta built my own:
Day 1: "Breakfast: 3 eggs, 3 egg whites, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, soy chicken breast, grapes; Dinner: veggie wrap x 2, Snack: almonds"
Day 2: "Breakfast: Smoothie with berries and whey powder, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, vegetarian chilli with tofu; Dinner: green beans, quinoa, vegetarian ribs Snack: apple, hard boiled eggs

What the hell are these abominations?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

How is that? Eggs and dairy are not starchy carbs.

Knowing that I was vegetarian, the PT did give me a second sheet, but it was more geared towards vegans:
....

Day 2: "Breakfast: Smoothie with berries and whey powder, greek yogurt; Lunch: steamed veggies, vegetarian chilli with tofu; Dinner: green beans, quinoa, vegetarian ribs Snack: apple, hard boiled eggs

Smart thinking! Try to use all of the meat off the vegetarian. Try to remember to boil the rib bones for soup stock afterwards.

This will ensure that us omnivores never run out of high quality herbivore meat. Proper herd management is key.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

What the hell are these abominations?

http://gardein.com/products/tuscan-breasts-cnd/
http://gardein.com/products/barbecue-riblets-cnd/

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by blankall

Try and add up the total calories from what you're eating. Keep in mind that many vegetables have almost no calories. The calories come from what they are cooked in, dressed with, wrapped in, etc...

If your calories are way below maintenance, you're going to feel dizzy, tired, and weak. In order to lose fat, you need to be below maintenance, but you don't want to go too far below. The feelings of weakness and fatigue may be your metabolism shutting down, if your calorie intake is too low. However, what you're feeling could just be an adjustment period. It's not possible to tell without more details of what you're eating.

Other tips I always suggest is to find sauces and condiments that are low in calories. Many mustards and hot sauces have virtually no calories.

I am at 2200 per day. The dietician said that a man of my age/height should be at 2500. And when I told her that I am cycling to/from work each day (40 mins each way) + seeing the personal trainer 3 times a week, she said it should be around 2700 to 2800 each day. But whenever I get anywhere near that, I start putting on weight.

I don't feel fatigued at all.

I didn't give you the portion sizes. Breakfast is typically 800 calories, lunch is 600 and dinner is 800.

-=-=-=-=-=-
As for the dietician, she was taught that the Canadian Food Guide was the end-all, be-all. My diet, with very few carbs, did not meet what she was saying so she wanted nothing to do with it. If you are a goalie coach that specializes in teaching the butterfly and someone comes in that flops around like Hasek, you tell them you want nothing to do with their style. If that is what they are being taught in university... *shrug*

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I am at 2200 per day. The dietician said that a man of my age/height should be at 2500. And when I told her that I am cycling to/from work each day (40 mins each way) + seeing the personal trainer 3 times a week, she said it should be around 2700 to 2800 each day. But whenever I get anywhere near that, I start putting on weight.

I don't feel fatigued at all.

I didn't give you the portion sizes. Breakfast is typically 800 calories, lunch is 600 and dinner is 800.

-=-=-=-=-=-
As for the dietician, she was taught that the Canadian Food Guide was the end-all, be-all. My diet, with very few carbs, did not meet what she was saying so she wanted nothing to do with it. If you are a goalie coach that specializes in teaching the butterfly and someone comes in that flops around like Hasek, you tell them you want nothing to do with their style. If that is what they are being taught in university... *shrug*

Not to be rude, but are you putting on Fat or lean muscle. Depending on your current body composition you can "put on weight" and still be healthy.

I know you have posted about your weight a fair bit, so I assume you are aware of the different types of "weight" gain.

BTW, if I was you I would throw your scale away, unless you have been given a target weight by a doctor. If you haven't then focus and trust how you feel. It can say as much about your health/fitness/weight gain as any scale.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Also, is your goal to lose the desired weight and then slowly integrate more carbs such as brown rice and sweet potato?

Well, I was down at 165 and 15% body fat. In 2012 I struggled with my diet and added 10 pounds. And that's when I went to see an eating disorder psychiatrist who put me on a very high carb diet. Breakfast was toast, cereal AND english muffin. Dinner was pasta almost every night. Lunch was a sandwich. Snacks were crackers and peanut butter or a muffin. I was hitting around 2800 calories a day under this doctor's plan. And I put on ANOTHER 10 pounds up to 185 and my body fat went all the way up to 24%.

I then went to the personal trainer, dropped the carbs down to near zero, started weight training. The weight has only gone down to 180, but the body fat is at 19.6%.

So I'm okay staying at 180 for the rest of my life. If I got down to 170, I wouldn't complain, but I have no urgent need to get there. I feel good, high energy, did well on my half marathon, lifting heavier weights now... generally things seem okay.

However, both my family doctor and my new psychiatrist both wanted me to see this dietician and I had a feeling they wanted me back more towards what the first doctor had me on. And I was right. Which is why I brought the book about the paleo diet... which just seemed to irk the dietician. She didn't seem to like being challenged.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Not to be rude, but are you putting on Fat or lean muscle. Depending on your current body composition you can "put on weight" and still be healthy.

As per my last post, it was fat, based on the body fat percentages. I regularly go to Toronto for DEXA scans.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Well, I was down at 165 and 15% body fat. In 2012 I struggled with my diet and added 10 pounds. And that's when I went to see an eating disorder psychiatrist who put me on a very high carb diet. Breakfast was toast, cereal AND english muffin. Dinner was pasta almost every night. Lunch was a sandwich. Snacks were crackers and peanut butter or a muffin. I was hitting around 2800 calories a day under this doctor's plan. And I put on ANOTHER 10 pounds up to 185 and my body fat went all the way up to 24%.

I then went to the personal trainer, dropped the carbs down to near zero, started weight training. The weight has only gone down to 180, but the body fat is at 19.6%.

So I'm okay staying at 180 for the rest of my life. If I got down to 170, I wouldn't complain, but I have no urgent need to get there. I feel good, high energy, did well on my half marathon, lifting heavier weights now... generally things seem okay.

However, both my family doctor and my new psychiatrist both wanted me to see this dietician and I had a feeling they wanted me back more towards what the first doctor had me on. And I was right. Which is why I brought the book about the paleo diet... which just seemed to irk the dietician. She didn't seem to like being challenged.

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

As per my last post, it was fat, based on the body fat percentages. I regularly go to Toronto for DEXA scans.

Those weights don't seem bad at all. I am 6 ft and float around 190/200 depending on how much running/weightroom I do.

I would stay off the scale for a few months and use you clothes/energy level(s) as your guide

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

http://gardein.com/products/tuscan-breasts-cnd/
http://gardein.com/products/barbecue-riblets-cnd/

Okay...

Trainer gives you diet based upon paleo diet. You modify it with just about the most processed least paleo foods you can find.

Why do you even go to other people for help with your diet? You just seem to be looking for someone to tell you to eat the same thing you already want to eat.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Those weights don't seem bad at all. I am 6 ft and float around 190/200 depending on how much running/weightroom I do.

I would stay off the scale for a few months and use you clothes/energy level(s) as your guide

Judging weight by height isn't really relevant.
Depending on your frame, and how much muscle mass you're carrying 6ft 190 could be pretty shredded or pretty tubby.

I know when I was at 200 lbs, I was pretty fat, but one of my best buddies who is the same height as me weighed 210 but had about 10% body fat because he was built like a gorilla.

If he was at 24% body fat, then being 185 lbs was too heavy for him.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Okay...

Trainer gives you diet based upon paleo diet. You modify it with just about the most processed least paleo foods you can find.

Why do you even go to other people for help with your diet? You just seem to be looking for someone to tell you to eat the same thing you already want to eat.

That isn't true at all. I went to the dietician with (A) the original meat-eaters diet the trainer gave me, (B) the vegan diet the trainer gave me, and (C) the diet plan I came up with and was willing to work with her, explaining that I was concerned about starchy carbs due to weight gain and brought a book that backed up my concern.

The thread was more along the lines of a frustration that we just don't know who to trust when it comes to nutrition. Doctors? Registered dieticians? Personal Trainer? Books on nutrition? Those haven't worked for me as I keep getting different messages. Like I said, I've been given enough meal plans over the years to wallpaper a room. And you are right, the personal trainer one didn't work for me.. the meat one didn't fit and there was no way that I could maintain eating the vegan diet. Maybe eating these ribs are not healthy (they may be processed, but at least all the ingredients are readable) and I am more than willing to change. Just that moving to a high carb diet like what I was on before scares me due to the weight gain and fat % from last time.

FYI - for those trying to do any calculations, I am 5 foot, 10 inches.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Judging weight by height isn't really relevant.
Depending on your frame, and how much muscle mass you're carrying 6ft 190 could be pretty shredded or pretty tubby.

I know when I was at 200 lbs, I was pretty fat, but one of my best buddies who is the same height as me weighed 210 but had about 10% body fat because he was built like a gorilla.

If he was at 24% body fat, then being 185 lbs was too heavy for him.

Not really my point (which was poorly stated). I think the OP should ditch his scale and use other indicators to worry/judge his weight.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

That isn't true at all. I went to the dietician with (A) the original meat-eaters diet the trainer gave me, (B) the vegan diet the trainer gave me, and (C) the diet plan I came up with and was willing to work with her, explaining that I was concerned about starchy carbs due to weight gain and brought a book that backed up my concern.

The thread was more along the lines of a frustration that we just don't know who to trust when it comes to nutrition. Doctors? Registered dieticians? Personal Trainer? Books on nutrition? Those haven't worked for me as I keep getting different messages. Like I said, I've been given enough meal plans over the years to wallpaper a room. And you are right, the personal trainer one didn't work for me.. the meat one didn't fit and there was no way that I could maintain eating the vegan diet. Maybe eating these ribs are not healthy (they may be processed, but at least all the ingredients are readable) and I am more than willing to change. Just that moving to a high carb diet like what I was on before scares me due to the weight gain and fat % from last time.

You are not willing to change. You obviously value only eating certain foods over the foods that people you ask for help suggest to you. Or if you do attempt to change you believe that you cannot make that change long term.

You state this thread is about frustration at not knowing who to trust but the answer is pretty simple. You listen to the people whose advice works for other people in similar situations to yourself and you try it out yourself. If it doesn't work for you, discard their opinion. If it does work, stick with it.

[Devils'Advocate]

Come on. I'm a vegetarian. I'm unwilling to eat a meat based diet nor a vegan diet (the two options that I have rejected).

I have *grave concerns* about eating more carbs and brought those to the dietician. If others back her opinion, I may be forced to change mine. But I am willing to go there. But you can't possibly be calling me "overly rigid" because I won't start eating meat.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

You listen to the people whose advice works for other people in similar situations to yourself and you try it out yourself. If it doesn't work for you, discard their opinion. If it does work, stick with it.

This is what it pretty much comes down to. There are a million correct answers and there a million wrong answers. You need to find what works for you.

The crazy thing about nutrition and fitness is that there are a lot of laymen that are basically "experts" in this area- the problem is that they are only experts in what works for them. At the end of the day, all of the programs and methods usually work, but its about finding one that naturally works for you- while respecting the fundamentals that are universal for everyone. ie. adequate intake of nutrients, minerals, carbs, proteins, fats etc

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Come on. I'm a vegetarian. I'm unwilling to eat a meat based diet nor a vegan diet (the two options that I have rejected).

I have *grave concerns* about eating more carbs and brought those to the dietician. If others back her opinion, I may be forced to change mine. But I am willing to go there. But you can't possibly be calling me "overly rigid" because I won't start eating meat.

You're unwilling to eat meat or vegan or more carbs but you're willing to change? Okay....

It all comes down to what you prioritize. Either you value being thin and healthy over eating only the foods you want to eat or you don't. But don't whine about not being able to know who to turn to nutrition advice when you're giving everyone who provides you advice an almost impossible task. You clearly value eating what you believe you should eat over what others tell you you should eat.

[opendoor]

If it was me, I'd probably give the dietician's meal plan a try but modify it to match your current caloric intake. I'd guess your weight gain with previous higher carb diets was more related to consuming nearly 2800 calories vs. the 2200 you're consuming now. BMR is great as a general guide, but if you've been tracking your weight over a long period of time and you figure 2200 is your maintenance level, then stick with that. Is it possible to have your BMR tested to confirm your observations?

Personally I'm pretty skeptical that any diet plan that completely eliminates a bunch of normal foods is a good idea in the long run. I'd stick with the healthy foods you like and try to build a balanced diet plan around that. If you just avoid eating a bunch of junk you'll already be ahead of about 90% of the population.