Controversy with dean of medicine at UofA

[malcolmk14]

As students it's been drilled into our heads from day one that plagiarism is an unforgivable offense punishable by expulsion from the University.

That being said, I don't think the dean should have his career ended over this. I like the suggestion of having to visit ethics classes for a number of years and talk about why he did what he did, and how important it is not to make the same mistake.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Sample00

playing devil's advocate here...

is it possible that the Dean had a speech writer and that the writer plagerized the speech and gave it to the Dean to read.

I suspect a Dean's schedule can be fairly hectic to a point that he may not be able to take the time and write the speech himself.

just saying...

This is exactly what I thought when I heard about it. It's just too stupid. He still needs to be canned though just so the school can save face.

A colleague of mine who was a TA caught somebody plagiarizing one year. The student came to her freaking out, crying and apologizing. Later that evening the TA sent her an email informing her that it was a serious thing to do and they were moving forward with it. She also said that she was really sorry for her and that she understood she was under a lot of pressure. The following morning the student was in the Dean's office, email in hand with that last part highlighted saying that the TA supports her. It was a damn mess.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

They could have a discussion where they told him he could try and think of a way to make amends (like this, for example) or he'd be fired with cause. I bet that would work.

Would be kind of ironic to punish an ethical issue through the use of extortion

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Slava

Slip-up? I don't know....it's a word for word slip-up using medical terms in the exact same order. Maybe it's a slip in he sense he meant to give credit but forgot, but even that would be hard to believe. If that were true wouldn't he come out immediately and say that though?

Yeah, I meant slip up in the guy forgetting to mention that he was going to repeat that speech.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by valo403

Would be kind of ironic to punish an ethical issue through the use of extortion

Poetic justice. Probably should have put the green text in the first post as well.

[MoneyGuy]

What he did was inexcusable but there is a big difference between plagiarizing a speech and an essay, thesis or similar. He should be reprimanded but not fired.

[Rob Brown]

Ironic for sure

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

What he did was inexcusable but there is a big difference between plagiarizing a speech and an essay, thesis or similar. He should be reprimanded but not fired.

why would you say that?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

why would you say that?

Because one is an academic work and one is a speech at a ceremony?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by valo403

Because one is an academic work and one is a speech at a ceremony?

Yes, stealing someone else's work for an academic work is worse than ripping it off in a speech.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by valo403

Because one is an academic work and one is a speech at a ceremony?

Yes I know that an assignment/thesis/essay is academic work, and this was a speech was at a ceremony. But without referencing, plagiarism is the same in both cases - taking credit for someone else's work and calling it your own. During my masters thesis, as little as a few sentences that even similarly resembled any academic source (not just word for word) is plagiarism, its that dense. Without copying or looking at a reference while writing my thesis, I still came away with a 63% plagiarism on my thesis (all papers had to go through http://turnitin.com/static/index.php ) and had to do several iterations to get that % down. Plagiarism is that serious in academia.

So, for an academic figurehead to take something word for word? I don't think this should get brushed off. At least not when your establishment is so anal about plagiarism. I don't think there was any malicious intent or anything, and it was likely a slip up not to reference the speech, but its still a serious issue in academia.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Yes I know that an assignment/thesis/essay is academic work, and this was a speech was at a ceremony. But without referencing, plagiarism is the same in both cases - taking credit for someone else's work and calling it your own. During my masters thesis, as little as a few sentences that even similarly resembled any academic source (not just word for word) is plagiarism, its that dense. Without copying or looking at a reference while writing my thesis, I still came away with a 63% plagiarism on my thesis (all papers had to go through http://turnitin.com/static/index.php ) and had to do several iterations to get that % down. Plagiarism is that serious in academia.

So, for an academic figurehead to take something word for word? I don't think this should get brushed off. At least not when your establishment is so anal about plagiarism. I don't think there was any malicious intent or anything, and it was likely a slip up not to reference the speech, but its still a serious issue in academia.

No need to give an explantion of plaigarism or how serious it's taken in academia, we all get that part. This wasn't academia though. This was like stealing jokes. He is the Carlos Mencia of commencement speeches. If he was a professional speaker this would be more serious, but he's not. He's a dean of medicine. While there's an ethical issue here that should be addressed this isn't even in the same ballpark as someone stealing even a few passages from someone else in an academic work.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by valo403

No need to give an explantion of plaigarism or how serious it's taken in academia, we all get that part. This wasn't academia though. This was like stealing jokes. He is the Carlos Mencia of commencement speeches. If he was a professional speaker this would be more serious, but he's not. He's a dean of medicine. While there's an ethical issue here that should be addressed this isn't even in the same ballpark as someone stealing even a few passages from someone else in an academic work.

I dunno, I guess I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that this guy is the Dean of Medicine. He's in a position where he should be setting a good example for his students. If he doesn't step down, people will just view him as a hypocrite. It's ok to plagerize, as long as it's not an essay and you're in a position of power?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I dunno, I guess I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that this guy is the Dean of Medicine. He's in a position where he should be setting a good example for his students. If he doesn't step down, people will just view him as a hypocrite. It's ok to plagerize, as long as it's not an essay and you're in a position of power?

The impression I'm getting from (apologists?) is, a speech doesn't matter so plagerism is not a big deal. Its only a big deal if its for marks?

I don't know if valo really understands my post (or had to deal with university plagerism BS). For instance, I would write something analogous to "The Calgary Flames have Iginla, Regehr and Kiprusoff as their core" - a pretty common sentence that has been widely used and says nothing particularly significant, and acadamia (turnitin.com) would say thats plagerism. Not a copy and paste job, not even a whole sentence, but a common statement to the relevent topic. So I'd have to edit it to "The Calgary Flames have Iginla as part of their core. Regehr, a defenseman, is also part of their core. Their goaltender, Kiprusoff, is a part of the core as well." That would STILL be plagiarism. Note this paragraph isn't to describe plagiarism, but how anal the academic community is about it. So the slightest slip up, even if its not for marks, gets a lot of attention.

So, word for word for a academic public figurehead in a public speech, yeah I think thats a big deal. I'm not necessarily saying it deserves capital punishment, but in the anal world of academia, thats not just a bug on a window shield. Personally, I don't really care, no skin off my back and its not my words he repeated. Just describing the situation.

[chemgear]

And . . . he quits. I wonder if he copied his resignation letter from a "inspirational source."

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

The impression I'm getting from (apologists?) is, a speech doesn't matter so plagerism is not a big deal. Its only a big deal if its for marks?

I don't know if valo really understands my post (or had to deal with university plagerism BS). For instance, I would write something analogous to "The Calgary Flames have Iginla, Regehr and Kiprusoff as their core" - a pretty common sentence that has been widely used and says nothing particularly significant, and acadamia (turnitin.com) would say thats plagerism. Not a copy and paste job, not even a whole sentence, but a common statement to the relevent topic. So I'd have to edit it to "The Calgary Flames have Iginla as part of their core. Regehr, a defenseman, is also part of their core. Their goaltender, Kiprusoff, is a part of the core as well." That would STILL be plagiarism. Note this paragraph isn't to describe plagiarism, but how anal the academic community is about it. So the slightest slip up, even if its not for marks, gets a lot of attention.

So, word for word for a academic public figurehead in a public speech, yeah I think thats a big deal. I'm not necessarily saying it deserves capital punishment, but in the anal world of academia, thats not just a bug on a window shield. Personally, I don't really care, no skin off my back and its not my words he repeated. Just describing the situation.

No you went way over my head obviously, I definitely don't understand plaigarism what with having spent 8 years in post-secondary schooling and having worked on journals. C'mon man, we all get what plagarism is, it's not a complicated subject. I just see that there are degrees of it and that context matters.

Btw, that's not plaigarism. I don't care what turnitin says. Based on that logic it is impossible to say that those 3 players are part of the Flames core without plagarizing. Impossible.