[PGT] Flames lose 4-3

[Kybb79]

Smith is done imo he should throw in the towel and retire. He is only hurting the team. We would be 1st if he was a average goalie.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There are all sorts of ways to win in the nhl
Size
Speed
Skill
Tight d
The Flames win because of skill. Adding a guy won’t change them into a tough team
We’ve said this team has needed an identity for years. They have one. And more often than not that’s how they win
Don’t try and change that. They need to own what they are and beat teams on that basis

I made a similar post specifically about adding one bigger/tougher guy and does that really help.

Right now I'm leaning to yes it would help. The fourth line is an interesting topic. I can't find it but I recall Treliving talking about what you want on a fourth line and how assessing a roster has changed (top 6, bottom 6 skill and grit).

CGY's fourth line perplexes me currently. I don't know if Mangiapane is the best fit there. He plays no special teams and I'm wondering what his role is? Do they want all their lines to outplay the opposition so just put the best players on there and you'll out corsi the opponent and that's all that matters?

I don't like watching Mangiapane get bounced around along the boards. He's taking some heavy hits and he's turned pucks over.

I like Ryan's play of late (he was outstanding against DET) he kills and he's making plays. Hathaway has the PK and heaviness to his game. Is Mangiapane there to play with Ryan and out corsi the opponent?

For meaningful games I want a physical component. I want players who will exact a physical toll on the opponent's D. I want players to be strong on the boards.

If Mangiapane is going to stay and they are going to outskill then he better start showing some skill. Reduce his turnovers to zero and start causing more havoc with his speed. He's barely holding on right now - I may be being too harsh on him but his role and his skillset are not matching.

I think this team will need to up their physicality - doesn't mean put a goon out there but someone who can and will dish it out. 8 min role. If the fourth line is below 50% CF but they are inflicting damage I'm sorry but I will happily take that trade off.

[djsFlames]

The standard for goalies seems to have fallen a touch. The once benchmark of .920 is now probably .910 for a "good" NHL goalie.

But I'm pretty sure Smith is still in the .880s so no matter which way you cut it, that's not NHL quality goaltending.

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Exactly.

Extreme statements do sound a bit silly, don't they? Like 'goals are continually his fault'.

Two goals were a result of his stick handling last night. About one per game is a fluff or poor positioning on his part. It's not hyperbole to suggest that goals are continually his fault. That's not saying all goals are, that's saying about one a game his a direct result of his poor play.

So no, that isn't an extreme statement.

[BigBrodieFan]

I am still irritated about the loss. I blame it 100 percent on the refs for three penalties on us in a row, making us short-handed for 6 minutes, while the Caps got away with murder. I officially hate the Caps. And the refs. And losing.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I am still irritated about the loss. I blame it 100 percent on the refs for three penalties on us in a row, making us short-handed for 6 minutes, while the Caps got away with murder. I officially hate the Caps. And the refs. And losing.

Your definatly not alone. The absolute worse

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Joborule

If Treliving can get a backup to replace Smith by the deadline, it'll really help the team a lot for the final stretch. The team wouldn't have to put up at least 5 goals to win when Smith is in net then.

I don’t believe it.

Historically speaking, goalies who get moved @ or around the deadline don’t tend to do well with their new team. Quite often they require time to adjust, and what you are imagining is not likely to happen for a goalie who will only get occasional starts from here to the end of the season.

It’s possible that the Flames will actually win more games in front of Smith than they might with a new goalie. The adjustment to a new team seems to be a lot harder for goalies than it is for other players.


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[AC]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don’t believe it.

Historically speaking, goalies who get moved @ or around the deadline don’t tend to do well with their new team. Quite often they require time to adjust, and what you are imagining is not likely to happen for a goalie who will only get occasional starts from here to the end of the season.

It’s possible that the Flames will actually win more games in front of Smith than they might with a new goalie. The adjustment to a new team seems to be a lot harder for goalies than it is for other players.


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They're pretty infrequent too.

Darcy Kuemper played well for Arizona last year, despite the Coyotes being a nightmare. Traded for Scott Wedgewood and Tobias Rieder.

Mrazek was hot and cold for Philly, but again the Flyers weren't great defensively. Traded for a conditional 3rd and 4th round picks.

I'd still be up for the Flames acquiring McElhinney or Mrazek out of Carolina. Shouldn't cost much as evidenced by Mrazek's return above.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don’t believe it.

Historically speaking, goalies who get moved @ or around the deadline don’t tend to do well with their new team. Quite often they require time to adjust, and what you are imagining is not likely to happen for a goalie who will only get occasional starts from here to the end of the season.

It’s possible that the Flames will actually win more games in front of Smith than they might with a new goalie. The adjustment to a new team seems to be a lot harder for goalies than it is for other players.


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When your current backup is one of the worst performing goalies in the league, there is only upside. McBackup seemed to have no problem adjusting in Carolina.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don’t believe it.

Historically speaking, goalies who get moved @ or around the deadline don’t tend to do well with their new team. Quite often they require time to adjust, and what you are imagining is not likely to happen for a goalie who will only get occasional starts from here to the end of the season.

It’s possible that the Flames will actually win more games in front of Smith than they might with a new goalie. The adjustment to a new team seems to be a lot harder for goalies than it is for other players.

I would say it's just as equally possible the Flames would win more games with a new backup, since the status quo with Smith is Flames have to score more than they typically would have to with Rittich in net due to the weak goals that are almost a game-to-game occurrence.

I would make a safe bet that at worse, you're getting the same results as you're getting with Smith right now. So if the price is right, it's worth the risk to improve a determent.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

When your current backup is one of the worst performing goalies in the league, there is only upside

No, there's things not improving at all.

I'm all for bringing in another goalie if the right deal can be made but it doesn't guarantee improvement.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Right. But they did.
And I expect they will have the same goalies to finish out the season.

But feel free to say it 100 more times.

Read the quote and look at the context...I wouldn't have to say it more than once if apologists weren't bending over backwards to defend the worst goalie in the NHL

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Inferno

No, there's things not improving at all.

I'm all for bringing in another goalie if the right deal can be made but it doesn't guarantee improvement.

Yes I agree you do not make just any deal. But speaking purely about what you might acquire, do you really believe any goalie Treliving would bring in would perform as poorly as Smith has?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yes I agree you do not make just any deal. But speaking purely about what you might acquire, do you really believe any goalie Treliving would bring in would perform as poorly as Smith has?

Yes, I think it's quite possible that whoever they might bring in doesn't do any better. Sometimes things don't work out for a player when he gets moved.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Yes, I think it's quite possible that whoever they might bring in doesn't do any better. Sometimes things don't work out for a player when he gets moved.

Plausible, possible, or likely?

Smith has let in 4+ in four of his last seven. (!) Behind the best team in the West. Second best in the league, and maybe the best if not for him. It’s not pretty.

Rittich has let in 4+ four times all year.
Twice in OTL’s.
The others were one vs TB (best team in the league and potent offence) and once vs SJ (also potent offense, not to mention a win) in wide open games.

A bigger challenge is trying to unload Smith’s contract to make room. Who would trade for him? Does the team have the joes to demote him, force him in to retirement, or determine and admit he is enough of a liability to actually carry three goalies?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Plausible, possible, or likely?

Like I said, possible. I'm not saying that nobody they bring in wont be better. Just that there's no guarantee like others are suggesting.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Like I said, possible. I'm not saying that nobody they bring in wont be better. Just that there's no guarantee like others are suggesting.

Nothing is guaranteed, that's just an empty truism. I wish people would stop repeating that, because it doesn't actually add anything to a conversation.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Itse

Nothing is guaranteed, that's just an empty truism. I wish people would stop repeating that, because it doesn't actually add anything to a conversation.

That nothing is guaranteed or suggesting that it is?

I didn't just reply with "Nothing is guaranteed". Strange Brew said there's nothing but upside to replacing Smith. I disagreed and said things could stay the same. Maybe we don't see as many soft goals but we still see a goalie who can't keep the team in the game and loses the same games Smith would have.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Technically possible. Practically unlikely.