Calgary Cops caught using excessive force?

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Terribly difficult charge to obtain a conviction for.

Especially if it never happened

Seriously though...my first reaction was to say you can't just make things up to fit your argument. Then I figured, why not look up some reported cases on that section before I get mouthy.

Much to my surprise, you might be right...but not necessarily for the reasons I think you had in mind:

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/do...&resultIndex=4

[216] While Mr. Brown had these painful and debilitating shocks being applied to him, he was struggling and it may have been that at one point his hand brushed against Carroll’s firearm, but I can not be satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that it was anything other than an involuntary muscle contraction that caused this or simple flailing from the pain and fear that the police caused this man. I am certainly not satisfied, even on a balance of probabilities standard, that he attempted to disarm Sergeant Carroll.

[217] What is more disturbing to me is that the evidence of Sergeant Carroll appears to be given untruthfully and other officers on the scene unwillingly or willingly appear to be a part of this cover up.

[218] Constable Wozny gave evidence that concerned me. Even though she was tasked to be the last one in the room and to act as the observer, she failed to see Constable Egerter punching Mr. Brown in the head on at least five occasions according to Constable Egerter himself.

[219] She says she hears the click of the stage one disengagement of Sergeant Carroll’s firearm, however neither Carroll nor Stapleton, who was immediately beside Carroll, heard this sound.

[220] She went to great lengths to distance herself from her initial evidence given on direct examination that she saw the Taser deployed, but then tried to correct her evidence by saying that she saw it drawn before it was knocked out of Sergeant Carroll’s hand.

[221] Sergeant Stapleton’s evidence concerns me. He was the next most senior officer on the scene and yet he created totally deficient notes and, in my view, at best engaged in wilful blindness as to the actions of Sergeant Carroll in failing to see what the CEW and Use of Force exhibits suggest. He was a qualified officer who would have noticed that the Taser was deployed in full deployment mode upon entry, yet he maintained that this was not the case. I find this troubling and concerning.

[222] With the two most senior officers at the scene failing to testify truthfully and candidly to the events that transpired, I am not surprised that the more junior officers would feel compelled to follow along, although I am disappointed that they did.

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/do...&resultIndex=5

[248] I reject both officers’ testimony that Stanislaw tried to “stand up” before he was pepper sprayed in the face. Both officers were physically on top of Stanislaw at the time as he was pinned face down in the snow.
[249] I conclude that Stanislaw was defending himself against an assault on his person by these two officers.
[250] I conclude that Officer Egerter was mistaken with respect to Stanislaw intentionally trying to disarm him. Any contact with the gun holster, which never became unclipped, was unintentional contact as Stanislaw struggled to get air as he was pinned face down on the ground between the snow bank and the cruiser.
[251] I conclude that Bogumil did not assault or obstruct Officer Paroshy, as Officer Paroshy was not in the legal execution of his duty.
[252] If I am in error with respect to the officer not being in the lawful execution of his duty, I have a reasonable doubt that Bogumil pulled on Officer Paroshy’s shoulders. Bogumil was an excellent witness and he adamantly denied this. Agata denied this. Dr. Hariton testified in-chief that he saw Bogumil try to pull the officer off of Stanislaw, however, in cross-examination, he testified that what he saw was Officer Paroshy pushing Bogumil away.
[253] I conclude that Bogumil did not remove Officer Paroshy’s vest. This version of events is only given by Officer Paroshy. Even the independent witness, Dr. Hariton, saw no such thing. Officer Egerter eventually agreed in his testimony that he did not really see this either. Officer Paroshy’s testimony was either exaggerated or fabricated in this regard. Either way, it is unreliable.
[254] I conclude that Bogumil was arrested because he tried to protect his brother from being assaulted by police.
[255] It is a sad day for the justice system when a mature law abiding citizen testifies that they believe they were arrested for serious criminal offences because they threatened to sue police for excessive use of force.
[256] Police work is complicated and difficult. The vast majority of officers perform their work with a high degree of skill and professionalism. They are entitled to the community’s respect and appreciation.
[257] Police officers are routinely required to diffuse potentially volatile situations. This requires an ability to make quick judgment calls with patience and self-control.
[258] Unfortunately in this case, the police rejected offers of assistance that would have diffused the situation. The tension escalated, as did the violence.
[259] At the end of this long trial, it was clear that this case involved the excessive use of police force.
[260] I recommend that the Crown Attorney give a copy of these reasons to the Chief of Police of Halton for appropriate review and action.
[261] I recommend that the Crown Attorney screen charges where no underlying charges accompany “assault resist arrest” and “obstruct police” charges.

I highlighted the last sentence because it is the exact same issue behind why I asked my question.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by cznTiburon

I think the problem with this is that you are basing your assumption that this is the most pertinent charge based on a media article. The exact wording on the CPS statement is: "As CPS officers were attempting to escort the man off the premises, he pulled away and grabbed hold of one of the officer’s duty belts and on to the handle of the member’s conducted energy weapon."

It is alluded to in the media that this offender was trying to disarm the member but nowhere in the CPS statement does it use that word. In reality if this guy has grabbed hold of the taser handle of the belt simply as a way to get away or effect the officers ability to arrest him or to try and get away then the mens rea to "disarm" would not be met. The charge of obstruction still fits as clearly this mans actions were such that the members couldn't do their job and when a guy grabs a taser handle, whether to disarm or to flee, force was used to gain control.

I understand the point you are getting at with this being on the surface a more appropriate charge, but without the facts of the case it could very well be that simple obstruction was a more suitable charge.

No I also noted that difference in the media article so I went and used the CPS press release quote.

I fully accept they might have thought it through and decided they did not have enough on intent to proceed with the specific charge of disarming.

But to be fair, neither of us can know which is why I said that is a question I need answered.

[Laughman]

I'd like to bring up a point that was lost earlier:

Police aren't there for a fair fight, they need to end the situation ASAP.

It's obvious that a simple conversation solved nothing, and the aggressor is resisting.

1vs1, 4vs1, 6vs1...... For there to be a video available online for us, I think the situation evolved from a simple chit chat asking him too calm down, or even a firm escorting out of the premises.

When it gets to the point that there's 5 cops on you, in one of the most democratic countries in the world, punching and kneeling on you, obviously you ####ed up.

This is all the opinion of someone that had his share of cop run ins, back talking, refusing instructions, no cooperation, police mocking, and at no point where there 4-5 CPS members crushing and beating my head in.

His friends and acquaintances trying to pass off a illusion of him being a citizen angel is hilarious. This isn't 1986 soviet eastern bloc, random people at a festival don't experience police beat downs.

[Laughman]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Police are not being taught that no one has the right to fight them. They are being trained to tell someone that prior to going hands on with someone they advise them they are under arrest and able to articulate the reasons for that arrest. Unless of course your life or someone else's is in immediate danger, then you deal with the threat immediately.

Exactly!
At no point should a UFC watching hillbilly be inclined to take on a cop!
Boggles my mind how a drunk hillbilly attending the Calgary stampede expect a fair fight with a Calgary police officer....
Wtf is going thru your small mind?

You where obviously a danger to yourself and others around you in the first place to involve the police. Do you think constable o'brian is going to take off his duty belt and hand it over to a fellow officer and roll up his sleeves and fist fight you man to man, only for you to hope for a fight won fair, which might allow you to go home on the ctrain bragging about it?

[habernac]

Just watched quite the opposite on my lunch break.

There was a man outside the Suncor Energy Centre ranting at people and being physically threatening. He approached me, not quite sure what he was saying as I had my ear buds in, but I got the "ah, he's not all there" vibe and kept on my way. 15 minutes later, I'm walking back on the plus 15 and I looked to see if he was still there. He was, this time getting in someone's face. They walked away and he approached someone else.

Two of Calgary's finest walked up, guns drawn very quickly, and took care of the situation. The aggressive guy was smart, got right on the ground, hands on his head. Police cuffed him and escorted him to a waiting police car. I was a little nervous for the guy initially, but they were total pros.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by habernac

Just watched quite the opposite on my lunch break.

There was a man outside the Suncor Energy Centre ranting at people and being physically threatening. He approached me, not quite sure what he was saying as I had my ear buds in, but I got the "ah, he's not all there" vibe and kept on my way. 15 minutes later, I'm walking back on the plus 15 and I looked to see if he was still there. He was, this time getting in someone's face. They walked away and he approached someone else.

Two of Calgary's finest walked up, guns drawn very quickly, and took care of the situation. The aggressive guy was smart, got right on the ground, hands on his head. Police cuffed him and escorted him to a waiting police car. I was a little nervous for the guy initially, but they were total pros.

Portrait cell phone video or this didn't happen.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by habernac

There was a man outside the Suncor Energy Centre ranting at people and being physically threatening.

Wonder if that was the same individual from the James Short incident last week.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by habernac

The aggressive guy was smart, got right on the ground, hands on his head.

That would be the key.

NSFW

Spoiler!

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Jacks

That would be the key.

Unless you're minding an autistic person.

[CaramonLS]

Calgary officer will not face charges in the death of Anthony Heffernan despite police watchdog's report

Link

The Alberta Serious Incident Response Team (ASIRT) found “there was available evidence capable of constituting reasonable grounds to believe that an offence(s) under the Criminal Code had been committed” by the officer who shot Anthony Heffernan three times in the head and neck, once in the chest and put a fifth round through the window of the hotel room.
...
Following kicking in the door, 72 seconds elapsed from the point police were in the room to the point the second Taser and shots were fired.


The man seemed agitated and in medical distress, police have said. When officers went into the room, he held his hands up with a small insulin syringe in one and a lighter in the other, but didn’t comply with orders.

...
The officer who shot and killed Heffernan returned to duty after clearing a psychological assessment and was later involved in another deadly shooting in Huntington Hills on Jan. 25.

[AC]

Originally Posted by habernac

Just watched quite the opposite on my lunch break.

There was a man outside the Suncor Energy Centre ranting at people and being physically threatening. He approached me, not quite sure what he was saying as I had my ear buds in, but I got the "ah, he's not all there" vibe and kept on my way. 15 minutes later, I'm walking back on the plus 15 and I looked to see if he was still there. He was, this time getting in someone's face. They walked away and he approached someone else.

Two of Calgary's finest walked up, guns drawn very quickly, and took care of the situation. The aggressive guy was smart, got right on the ground, hands on his head. Police cuffed him and escorted him to a waiting police car. I was a little nervous for the guy initially, but they were total pros.

I had a fairly similar experience years ago while working at a liquor store.

Some drunk angry guy came stumbling in. When we told him we couldn't serve him because he was visibly drunk he started making threats and was claiming to have a gun on him.

I called the cops while my co-worker kept him talking and a few minutes later 2 cops showed up. They didn't draw their weapons but were very loud and intimidating. Guy shut down immediately and was taken away.