Is the bombing of a refugee camp a tragedy? Absolutely. Is it legal and justified, yes, it is, given Hamas started this war and is attempting to use human shields to protect its commanders.
They don't even hide the fact that they use human shields. It's a policy that they have asked civilians to adopt because it has been effective in the past to reduce Israel's ability to respond. Hopefully if the tactic is found to be non-effective, they will stop using it in the future. Probably not though as either scenario helps their cause.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 10-31-2023 at 10:23 PM.
Among the most interesting articles I've read about the conflict so far, and a quick lesson on Netanyahu and why he can't be trusted to do the right thing, in relation to the current situation or otherwise:
Quote:
This symbiotic relationship between Netanyahu and Hamas has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies, hawks and doves.
Yuval Diskin, former head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, told the daily newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth in 2013 that "if we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas's strengthening has been Bibi Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister."
In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah."
The logic underlying this strategy, Barak said, is that "it's easier with Hamas to explain to Israelis that there is no one to sit with and no one to talk to."
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 11-01-2023 at 12:41 AM.
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The irony is the best outcome for individual Palestinians, Gazans in particular would be for them to be forced out of Gaza and become refugees, at least then they would no longer be used as sacrificial pawns by Hamas in pursuit of an utterly impossible goal.
As refugees they could find somewhere to live settle in create a life, within 3 or 4 generations they would just be Canadian or British or Egyptian, there kids would have a hope, a future, as Gazans they just have centuries of poverty and hopeless anger to look forward too
My old foster son is now thinking as a Jew he will only be safe in Israel, my guess is the population of Israel will increase by a huge amount due to the barbarity of the attack on the 7th and the vast amount of anti sematic attacks around the world, the irony of this is it will put huge pressure on Israel to take more land in the West Bank
They could have disarmed and recognized Israel at anytime snd statehood would have immediately followed. They can have a state right now. Tomorrow. But to quote that famous phrase they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
And the British government after world War 1 could have never bribed the Jewish population for support by establishing Isrealies the first place. Might have also helped not feeding the Flames for world War 2 as the Nazis used this kind of bribe to stoke the flames hate about the jews stealing and replacing them . The German army DEFINITELY used the jews replacing thier Ally formers Lands.
The British strike again.
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 11-01-2023 at 02:46 AM.
Among the most interesting articles I've read about the conflict so far, and a quick lesson on Netanyahu and why he can't be trusted to do the right thing, in relation to the current situation or otherwise:
This is what people don't get, Hamas or no Hamas Israel has zero interest in giving the Palestinians a state. This notion that if only Hamas would lay down it weapons then the Palestinians would have a state is ridiculous.
How is this possible? They just violently suppressed massive protests caused by police beating a woman for not covering her hair. Literally just a few months ago they opened fire on protestors.
The chair is rotated on a regional basis among member countries. It can only be stopped if an emergency meeting is called and vote held to prevent it. No such meeting has been called by the current chair or president.
Iran also beat and left another lady in a coma for the same thing recently and she just died within the week.
This is what people don't get, Hamas or no Hamas Israel has zero interest in giving the Palestinians a state. This notion that if only Hamas would lay down it weapons then the Palestinians would have a state is ridiculous.
Israel literally offered the Palestinians a state twice, with 97% and 95% of the West Bank and land swaps for the rest, just before Hamas took over.
There are definitely voices in Israel who don't want to see a Palestinian state. This voices get louder when the Palestinians elect a government that promotes genocide of the Jewish state.
For someone who is incessantly accuses Israeli supporters of not criticizing Israel enough, you are willfully blind to the cyclical nature of this conflict and the role both sides play.
Not qualified to comment on Dresden.
US. Yes. Fits the definition of genocide.
No. Variables. Intent. Recklessness. Regard for human life.
Your turn.
Do you agree with the statement that Israel's actions amount to a "textbook case of genocide".
If not? Why not?
No, I wouldn’t say that Israel’s actions amount to genocide.
Same reasons as you mentioned for consideration - variables, intent, recklessness, regard for human life.
If Israel truly wanted to commit genocide on the Palestinians, what’s taking them so long? The population in Gaza continues to grow year after year. Before Oct 7, Israel continued to pump food, fuel and water into the strip. They could have used barbaric means like Russia is using in Ukraine long before Oct 7 to literally flatten Gaza and kill the entire population.
I hate that innocent people are getting killed in the crossfire, I really do. War sucks and those caught in the middle, particularly Palestinians, unfortunately lost the weird lottery of life that dictates many fates.
But I think it’s very dangerous to be throwing out words like genocide and apartheid. Israel is no morale saint, but if they truly wanted to commit genocide, they wouldn’t be sending a single troop into Gaza to wipe out Hamas and losing precious soldiers. They would just carpet bomb the place to shreds. They wouldn’t drop leaflets and give warnings for the civilian population to flee south. Does it always work? No. Do they still kill civilians? Yes. They are not perfect.
But to say they are committing genocide means you literally believe their true intention is to wipe the Palestinian population off the map. I genuinely do not feel that is the case at all.
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Last edited by Language; 11-01-2023 at 07:09 AM.
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The term ‘genocide’ has become so expansive that it now seems to mean any substantial loss of civilian life in a conflict. Which begs the question: Are there any non-genocidal wars?
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Per the BBC podcast this morning. Hamas releases a statement that 7 of the Israeli hostages it took were killed in the airstrike on their facility at the Jabalya yesterday.
It seems fatuous to expect Israel to live by some legal code when Hamas hasn't, you can't have it both ways, Hamas represents Gaza, they aren't in power against the wishes of the residents, they are wholly representative of their people, probably way more so than the Israeli Government
I'm curious how you can come to that conclusion when nearly 50% of the Palestinian population wasn't even born the last time an election was held
The term ‘genocide’ has become so expansive that it now seems to mean any substantial loss of civilian life in a conflict. Which begs the question: Are there any non-genocidal wars?
It hasn’t, but you’re right in that this is a good example of begging the question.
Hamas issues statement saying they are the victim, all their actions are justified and they will repeat as many Oct 7th attacks until Israel is annihilated.
The irony is the best outcome for individual Palestinians, Gazans in particular would be for them to be forced out of Gaza and become refugees, at least then they would no longer be used as sacrificial pawns by Hamas in pursuit of an utterly impossible goal.
As refugees they could find somewhere to live settle in create a life, within 3 or 4 generations they would just be Canadian or British or Egyptian, there kids would have a hope, a future, as Gazans they just have centuries of poverty and hopeless anger to look forward too
That was already tried in the past, but Palestinians cause chaos wherever they go. Why would any country accept them when they've already tried to overthrow governments in Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt?
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The irony is the best outcome for individual Palestinians, Gazans in particular would be for them to be forced out of Gaza and become refugees, at least then they would no longer be used as sacrificial pawns by Hamas in pursuit of an utterly impossible goal.
As refugees they could find somewhere to live settle in create a life, within 3 or 4 generations they would just be Canadian or British or Egyptian, there kids would have a hope, a future, as Gazans they just have centuries of poverty and hopeless anger to look forward too
Nobody in the Middle East will take them, especially if that package includes Hamas or any kind of radical element.
Egypt and Jordan have been pretty clear on this.
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