Jian Ghomeshi: Guilty or Innocent?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by peter12

Update: Charges dropped against Mike Smith. Wonder if Decoutere wants back on Trailer Park Boys?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...boys-1.3562488

She was leaving anyways...just a stunt

[peter12]

A dirty, dirty stunt. She tried to smear this guy for life.

[mrkajz44]

So the end result is: guilty in the court of public opinion; not guilty in the court of law; unsure of actual guilt in reality. No one wins here.

[CaptainCrunch]

I can't help but think and probably wrongly that this sets back woman reporting these kind of things for a long time.

His lawyer did a great job of destroying these witnesses and removing the focus from the incidents.

Why would any woman want to testify when every aspect of their life is assaulted on the stand?

Whether he's innocent or guilty, someone said it best he's innocent in the courts, but probably a sadistic creep. Here's hoping the CBC doesn't hire him back.

But chances are there's now going to be a lawsuit over his dismissal.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Why would any woman want to testify when every aspect of their life is assaulted on the stand?

That isn't what happened. Every aspect of their interactions with Ghomeshi was questioned and challenged on the stand. Prior sexual histories with other people, for example, were not brought up.

The takeaways from this trial are:

• Don't lie or omit facts when talking to police and the courts.
  
• Understand that all of your electronic media communications related to the charges can and will be introduced as evidence in court.
  
• Don't communicate with other complainants.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That isn't what happened. Every aspect of their interactions with Ghomeshi was questioned and challenged on the stand. Prior sexual histories with other people, for example, were not brought up.

The takeaways from this trial are:

• Don't lie or omit facts when talking to police and the courts.
• Understand that all of your electronic media communications related to the charges can and will be introduced as evidence in court.
• Don't communicate with other complainants.

I get what you're saying, but that's not exactly what I was saying. There's the old term that perception is reality right? I get the sense that any woman that has had an incident and is debating coming forward and followed that trial might not come forward, because the sense was that the lawyer painted this picture of these girls as complete slut balls who enjoyed the rough treatment.

[Kjesse]

I didn't get the sense that they were "slutballs", but rather, that their testimony was unreliable and appeared to have an agenda because of things they did not disclose that they should have.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I get what you're saying, but that's not exactly what I was saying. There's the old term that perception is reality right? I get the sense that any woman that has had an incident and is debating coming forward and followed that trial might not come forward, because the sense was that the lawyer painted this picture of these girls as complete slut balls who enjoyed the rough treatment.

Not at all. That seems like a take away someone would come up with if they hadn't followed the trial, saw the gist of what went on and then made an assumption as to what the issues were.

These girls colluded and were caught straight up lying many times, including an email exchange gleefully boasting about how they wanted to ruin him.

Your point is true - this trial has certainly done some damage to other girls coming forward in their own situations, but the blame is squarely on the accusers in this case and not the "system". He had a right to a fair trial, he got it and the accusers were horrible. Not even in the "I was scared/ashamed so I lied sense" instead in the "Let's just make this sound as bad as possible despite facts and ruin his life at all costs" sense.

This was basically these girls acting the way horrible girls would at a company to get someone fired that they didn't like, and were blindsided that the highest court in the land didn't go "Oh, you have a complaint? Yeah, you seem like reliable girls, we'll do something about this right away!".

[troutman]

If these women ruined Jian's life, why isn't he suing them?

Because he would have to take the stand in a civil trial.

[afc wimbledon]

As far as I can tell Ghomeshi is a pig who probably made life hugely unpleasant for any subordinate woman he worked with, that said he should have been fired rather than charged.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by troutman

If these women ruined Jian's life, why isn't he suing them?

Because he would have to take the stand in a civil trial.

That's a little loaded, if you're implying that he's hiding guilt and is afraid it will be exposed if he goes after them in civil court. Or maybe I read too much into your comment?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That's a little loaded, if you're implying that he's hiding guilt and is afraid it will be exposed if he goes after them in civil court. Or maybe I read too much into your comment?

To be fair, it's in the same vein as asking victims if they're not lying then why didn't they go to the police.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That's a little loaded, if you're implying that he's hiding guilt and is afraid it will be exposed if he goes after them in civil court. Or maybe I read too much into your comment?

That's exactly how I read it and loaded or not, I think it's true.

[bigtmac19]

Full statement from the CBC employee who brought these charges
http://www.windsorstar.com/news/full...977/story.html

[troutman]

The text of the apology:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news...click=sf_globe

[Harry Lime]

I've been trying to stay out of this thread, since a statement that I made close to when the charges were first laid, but I thought that I should say something now that things have been thoroughly distorted over the fiasco of the trial and subsequent payout.

(I just erased a paragraph that held information that I don't believe that is mine to tell. Suffice it to say, I am convinced of his guilt.)

There are other women that this guy assaulted, that will never come forward because they are not in the entertainment industry, do not work for CBC, feel that they don't have any protection and don't want their lives destroyed.

I understand that false accusation is a real problem, and can ruin lives. Anyone defending Gomeshi in this way really need to pick another horse to get behind. This guy is a predator, with a good lawyer, and dodged a bullet. He stalks unsuspecting women and assaults them to get off.

In no way is he a victim of anything here.
If this is a compulsion, there is a very good chance he will continue this behavior.

[troutman]

Kathryn Borel just destroyed Ghomeshi’s and the CBC’s efforts to rescue their reputations

http://business.financialpost.com/fp...ir-reputations

Borel’s full-frontal charge undoes everything that Ghomeshi had accomplished in his year-and-a-half of rehabilitation management and issues Ghomeshi a clear challenge: If she is lying, as he once claimed, her comments are slanderous, and egregiously so.

Borel has all but openly invited him to sue her. If he doesn’t, people will draw the obvious conclusion. But if he does, he’ll lose all the courtroom protections of the criminal process, and face instead the balanced ones of a civil court case where a judge must decide what happened, not whether a delineated criminal offense is made out “beyond any reasonable doubt.”

Ghomeshi handled his PR campaign well in the aftermath of the scandal, but the CBC has handled its own publicity brilliantly. And on Wednesday it was once again publicly reminding everyone, after Borel’s announcement, just how proactive CBC management has purportedly been in addressing any problems in the workplace.

CBC’s handling of this crisis was, in fact, appalling from the outset.

[troutman]

CBC protected Jian Ghomeshi, say two ex-colleagues with new harassment claims

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...assment-claims

Two more of the public broadcaster’s former employees reveal to the Post that they too were subject to Ghomeshi’s sexual advances in the workplace, and felt powerless to stop it.

The women, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said they did not report the harassment at the time because they believed the CBC would protect Ghomeshi, then the star of its flagship arts and culture show, Q.

Both women cited the power imbalance in the CBC workplace as a factor in their decision not to make formal complaints.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I've been trying to stay out of this thread, since a statement that I made close to when the charges were first laid, but I thought that I should say something now that things have been thoroughly distorted over the fiasco of the trial and subsequent payout.

(I just erased a paragraph that held information that I don't believe that is mine to tell. Suffice it to say, I am convinced of his guilt.)

There are other women that this guy assaulted, that will never come forward because they are not in the entertainment industry, do not work for CBC, feel that they don't have any protection and don't want their lives destroyed.

I understand that false accusation is a real problem, and can ruin lives. Anyone defending Gomeshi in this way really need to pick another horse to get behind. This guy is a predator, with a good lawyer, and dodged a bullet. He stalks unsuspecting women and assaults them to get off.

In no way is he a victim of anything here.
If this is a compulsion, there is a very good chance he will continue this behavior.

I agree with all of that, but I am not sure there is really anyone picking the Gomeshi horse. The thread title is most unfortunate, as "Innocent" doesn't seem like a good choice, but Not Guilty in this specific criminal case is.

[transplant99]

Heh