Francis: It's time for the Flames to get serious about bottoming out

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This is why Conroy needs to lean in to the poor start. Fight power with power. Stop being a mediocre, less talented team by design.

Right. All he has to do is finish below all the other bad teams that are also tanking, and then win the lottery in one of those few years when a talent like Celebrini comes along. Anything else, clearly, is ‘being mediocre by design’.

It's so simple! Why didn't the moron ever think of that before!

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Right. All he has to do is finish below all the other bad teams that are also tanking, and then win the lottery in one of those few years when a talent like Celebrini comes along. Anything else, clearly, is ‘being mediocre by design’.

It's so simple! Why didn't the moron ever think of that before!

yup. Celebrini might be the best prospect to come along since McDavid, including Bedard.
Those guys just don't come along very often and you have to be incredibly fortunate to bottom out at the right time, and win the lotto.

You've got the meh #1s: Owen Power, AF
You've got the great #1st but don't necessarily change a franchise: Dahlin, Slafkovsky, Hischier
Then you've got the ones that change your franchise: Mackinnon, Celebrini, Matthews, etc.

Gotta be lucky to get one of that final group.
(not sure where I would put Jack Hughes)

[Vinny01]

This is a year you want to get lucky with McKenna and the Flames have done their part through 10 games to be one of the 10 hopefuls who will have a chance. What % chance remains to be seen.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This is a year you want to get lucky with McKenna and the Flames have done their part through 10 games to be one of the 10 hopefuls who will have a chance. What % chance remains to be seen.

That's true, but even McKenna, as a winger, is not going to have the impact of a franchise centre.

[Mathgod]

I think you give the team until the end of December to show what they're made of. If they're not within 2-3 points of a playoff spot at that point, you pivot and embrace the tank.

There's no guarantee we're getting McKenna even with a last place finish, and even if we do, there's no guarantee he's going to be a Kucherov or Pasta level winger. He's having a just OK season so far at Penn State.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

yup. Celebrini might be the best prospect to come along since McDavid, including Bedard.
Those guys just don't come along very often and you have to be incredibly fortunate to bottom out at the right time, and win the lotto.

You've got the meh #1s: Owen Power, AF
You've got the great #1st but don't necessarily change a franchise: Dahlin, Slafkovsky, Hischier
Then you've got the ones that change your franchise: Mackinnon, Celebrini, Matthews, etc.

Gotta be lucky to get one of that final group.
(not sure where I would put Jack Hughes)

Yeah, but we're not dealing in hypotheticals to the best of my knowledge.

2026 isn't a RNH/Yakupov year.

The timing is right. I'm not talking about 2027 or beyond - I'm specifically talking about the bottom place spot we currently reside in, the path forward to success ("success") being nearly impossible.

Conroy has an opportunity to be very opportunistic here. That's what I'm championing.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This is a year you want to get lucky with McKenna and the Flames have done their part through 10 games to be one of the 10 hopefuls who will have a chance. What % chance remains to be seen.

McKenna - Parekh - Wolf is certainly something you can build around.

[DionTheDman]

Hopefully with more success than Iggy - Dion - Kipper.

[Shazam]

Fat bottomed Flames
You make the hockey world go around

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

yup. Celebrini might be the best prospect to come along since McDavid, including Bedard.
Those guys just don't come along very often and you have to be incredibly fortunate to bottom out at the right time, and win the lotto.

You've got the meh #1s: Owen Power, AF
You've got the great #1st but don't necessarily change a franchise: Dahlin, Slafkovsky, Hischier
Then you've got the ones that change your franchise: Mackinnon, Celebrini, Matthews, etc.

Gotta be lucky to get one of that final group.
(not sure where I would put Jack Hughes)

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, but we're not dealing in hypotheticals to the best of my knowledge.

2026 isn't a RNH/Yakupov year.

The timing is right. I'm not talking about 2027 or beyond - I'm specifically talking about the bottom place spot we currently reside in, the path forward to success ("success") being nearly impossible.

Conroy has an opportunity to be very opportunistic here. That's what I'm championing.

The players need to take that next step too.

McKenna looks great, but honestly Lafreniere was seen just as highly at this time of their developments.

I think it gets forgotten that Lafreniere was two time CHL player of the year before he was drafted, a WJC MVP. etc. He wasn't Crosby/McDavid/Bedard level of hype but he was probably just 1 tier below that.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Hopefully with more success than Iggy - Dion - Kipper.

None of those are centers and despite the hype Phaneuf was never a star outside his first 3-4 seasons

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The players need to take that next step too.

McKenna looks great, but honestly Lafreniere was seen just as highly at this time of their developments.

I think it gets forgotten that Lafreniere was two time CHL player of the year before he was drafted, a WJC MVP. etc. He wasn't Crosby/McDavid/Bedard level of hype but he was probably just 1 tier below that.

He also got the Bennett treatment from Quinn & Gallant for the first 3 years of his career.

This is Laf's 6th season, and he's already on his 4th head coach. Sometimes you just can't outplay short sighted, poor management. Hiring coaches/providing organizational stability with the right coach is a hell of thing, it would appear. Lots of teams get it wrong (including Treliving's entire run here).

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, but we're not dealing in hypotheticals to the best of my knowledge.

2026 isn't a RNH/Yakupov year.

The timing is right. I'm not talking about 2027 or beyond - I'm specifically talking about the bottom place spot we currently reside in, the path forward to success ("success") being nearly impossible.

Conroy has an opportunity to be very opportunistic here. That's what I'm championing.

The hypothetical is that the Flames can out-tank all the other bad teams and also win the lottery. Neither of those things are in Conroy's control.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The hypothetical is that the Flames can out-tank all the other bad teams and also win the lottery. Neither of those things are in Conroy's control.

How is that less likely than the Flames playing at a division championship-level for the remainder of the season?

It's sports, it's all about competition and giving your team the best chance at doing something meaningful.

Conroy's roster isn't going to do anything meaningful on the ice this season. The best path is for him to try and do something meaningful off the ice.

There are zero guarantees, so what's your take? Best to not try at all?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He also got the Bennett treatment from Quinn & Gallant for the first 3 years of his career.

This is Laf's 6th season, and he's already on his 4th head coach. Sometimes you just can't outplay short sighted, poor management. Hiring coaches/providing organizational stability with the right coach is a hell of thing, it would appear. Lots of teams get it wrong (including Treliving's entire run here).

He's a guy I'd still take a flyer on, has that Bennett change of scenary potential for sure

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You mean two years ago when they unloaded Zadorov, Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, Markstrom, and Mangiapane in under seven months, after an off-season in which they traded Toffoli without offering him a contract extension? Like that?

Like that but better than that, with more commitment and less reluctance.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

How is that less likely than the Flames playing at a division championship-level for the remainder of the season?

It’s not a question of one or the other. Almost certainly the result will be somewhere in the vast space between, and the usial fans will be bellyaching about mediocrity.

Thr point is that Conroy cannot simply choose to pick #1 overall, and he would be an absolute idiot to assume it will happen.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Like that but better than that, with more commitment and less reluctance.

You’re deducting points for what you imagine his emotions were? That’s one way to make sure he never gets credit for anything, I suppose.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

McKenna - Parekh - Wolf is certainly something you can build around.

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Hopefully with more success than Iggy - Dion - Kipper.

Originally Posted by BigThief

None of those are centers and despite the hype Phaneuf was never a star outside his first 3-4 seasons

That's the point. CroFlames said that a winger, a dman and a goalie would be capable to build around. Last time we had a top end winger, dman and goalie at the same time was with those three.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You’re deducting points for what you imagine his emotions were? That’s one way to make sure he never gets credit for anything, I suppose.

We cannot judge Conroy on his actions. Rather we must judge him on what we think his thoughts might have been. This is the best way to reach a conclusion that matches our thoughts. It is a pretty simple, clearly objective, way to judge what is happening.