Imperialism/colonialism was the posh thing to do back then. You were not a bigtime player if you did not try and divide and conquer. It was a different world back then. The sanctions were put in place because of the agressiveness of the expansion and Japans allegiance with the Germans. Blaming the US for the attacks on pearl harbor is rediculous.
No, but apparently America did, for awhile at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesla
Imperialism/colonialism was the posh thing to do back then. You were not a bigtime player if you did not try and divide and conquer. It was a different world back then. The sanctions were put in place because of the agressiveness of the expansion and Japans allegiance with the Germans. Blaming the US for the attacks on pearl harbor is rediculous.
Maybe, but they weren't exactly innocent bystanders. Basically at the start of WWII four nations controlled almost all of the World's resources- Britain, Russia, USA and France. I don't think it's a coincidence that they all wound up on the same side. Why not maintain status-quo when you've got everything you want?
I really don't understand how anyone couldn't get together to stop the Nazi's, it was pretty clear what their goal was, I don't think it was really a coincidence at all!
I really don't understand how anyone couldn't get together to stop the Nazi's, it was pretty clear what their goal was, I don't think it was really a coincidence at all!
For the most part the allies understood that Hitler was expansionist, he had a view on all of Europe. They knew that he was oppressing the Jews, but I don't think that was a big factor at the time. The Allies didn't know about the camps or the killing squads til much later in the war.
Besides the conquoring of a traditional ally, they didn't see Hitler in the same light as the Japanese because we knew about the atrocities that the Japanese had perpetuated every where that they had landed troops. They also had that whole stabbed in the back at Pearl thing.
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This thread was cool when it was about carriers, escort carriers, and big battleships duking it out...
I wish this thread was strictly about The Pacific, the HBO series.
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so i just finished rewatching Band of Brothers that i recorded on HBO over the weekend, and even though i've seen it probably a dozen times over it still never loses it's impact. i find myself so attached to these characters that by the time Points rolls around and you see Winters remembering D-Day and on, all i want to do is start all over again from the beginning. and i have to stress that the scene where Easy Company finds that concentration camp is probably one of the most powerful pieces of film-making ever produced, even having seen it so many times i still have trouble keeping it together watching that part
i only hope that The Pacific is half as good as BoB, because i honestly believe it is one of the most important movies or tv shows ever made. it really should be shown in every high school in North America, especially with how few WWII veterans we have left to share their stories first hand
But modern era battleships never actually dominated the sea. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the only significant modern era battleship battles take place in the American Civil war?
I think you are confusing the concept of a battleship with an "ironclad". The first ironclad battles ever took place during the American Civil War. I wouldn't call these modern. They were regular wooden boats with iron plating that steamed down rivers and along coastlines.
Modern era battleships didn't really exist until the British Dreadnaughts at the turn of the century which started a battleship arms race. They did dominate the sea and were the mainstays of Navies of all modern states for half of the 20th century until carriers proved they were obsolete midway through WWII. Battleships were still considered so important in the 30s to early 40s that many military treaties included battleship tonnage requirements and all the major powers built huge battleships like the Bismarck and the Yamato. Carriers saw little service in the European theatre, it was mostly battleships, destroyers, escorts, and submarines fighting a sea battle to blockade England/Europe, but the Ark Royal was a big part of the sinking of the Bismarck. The Pacific campaign saw battleships as part of task forces and fleets that the supported the carriers of both Japan and the United States. These could have played a big part in battles such as midway if Japan had not separated their fleet to elude detection.
The US itself built the largest battleships, the Iowa class which were never completed before the war ended but ended up seeing the longest service as Ronald Reagan pressed them back into service in the Cold War in the 1980s.
WWII is so overdone. I cannot bring myself to watch this show.
Can we have some other conflicts please? I guess the big budgets always goto the ones where America is the most involved (WWII, Vietnam)
I'd like an HBO miniseries on the 20 Years War, the War of 1812, Both Boer Wars, Falklands War, WWI, Korean War, etc.
I would agree that the European theater is probably overdone. However, the Pacific theater is vastly under represented. Especially on the magnitude of the entire campaign which lasted 4 years. We get films that show one battle here or there, but nothing that shows us the entire war, which i'm hoping the Pacific will do.
Heck, it's not the European theater that's overdone, it's really only from D-Day on. The invasion of Sicily and Italy is not a central WWII theme, the Battle of Britain certainly isn't, nor is the fighting that took place in North Africa.
I would agree that the European theater is probably overdone. However, the Pacific theater is vastly under represented. Especially on the magnitude of the entire campaign which lasted 4 years. We get films that show one battle here or there, but nothing that shows us the entire war, which i'm hoping the Pacific will do.
Heck, it's not the European theater that's overdone, it's really only from D-Day on. The invasion of Sicily and Italy is not a central WWII theme, the Battle of Britain certainly isn't, nor is the fighting that took place in North Africa.
There were tons of movies about WWII DURING WWII and in the two and even three decades after the conflict ended.
And particularly the Pacific theater. No shortage of them at all.
Tora, Tora, Tora was a 1970 big budget flick, Midway was a 1976 movie that had just about every major actor of the era in it while Flying Leathernecks (1951) was about Guadacanal. Sands of Iwo Jima from 1949 was another example.
Bridge On The River Kwai from 1957 was an Oscar winner.
Propoganda Classics like Guadacanal Diary (1943) and The Fighting Seebees (1944) were made during the war years.
One of my personal favourite war movies, although very obscure, is "Ice Cold In Alex" from 1958, a Middle East war story, and, of course, "Sink The Bismark" from 1960.
Two great World War 1 movies would be "Lawrence Of Arabia" and "Gallipoli." The latter is "Platoon"-like in its ability to depress you.
Korea is a conflict under-represented by Hollywood. As many Americans died in Korea as Vietnam. The Manchurian Candidate and The Bridges At Toko-Ri are two examples.
Hollywood and the American public seemed to tire of the World War II narrative after 1980, when Vietnam-era movies like Platoon finally started to gain some traction. It's only lately we are starting to see renewed interest in WWII, as the Greatest Generation dies off.
Like Vietnam but unlike World War II, the American public seems to need some separation from actual events before they'll embrace films about Iraq and Afghanistan. By most accounts, the new Matt Damon film, as an example, is a pretty good flick but, like The Hurt Locker, isn't doing well at the box office. It was more than 10 years after America left Vietnam before "Platoon" became the first Vietnam narrative to enjoy box office and critical success.
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Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
I think you are confusing the concept of a battleship with an "ironclad". The first ironclad battles ever took place during the American Civil War. I wouldn't call these modern. They were regular wooden boats with iron plating that steamed down rivers and along coastlines.
Modern era battleships didn't really exist until the British Dreadnaughts at the turn of the century which started a battleship arms race. They did dominate the sea and were the mainstays of Navies of all modern states for half of the 20th century until carriers proved they were obsolete midway through WWII. Battleships were still considered so important in the 30s to early 40s that many military treaties included battleship tonnage requirements and all the major powers built huge battleships like the Bismarck and the Yamato. Carriers saw little service in the European theatre, it was mostly battleships, destroyers, escorts, and submarines fighting a sea battle to blockade England/Europe, but the Ark Royal was a big part of the sinking of the Bismarck. The Pacific campaign saw battleships as part of task forces and fleets that the supported the carriers of both Japan and the United States. These could have played a big part in battles such as midway if Japan had not separated their fleet to elude detection.
The US itself built the largest battleships, the Iowa class which were never completed before the war ended but ended up seeing the longest service as Ronald Reagan pressed them back into service in the Cold War in the 1980s.
Actually I'm pretty sure the Japanese had the biggest battleships ever built. I'm not 100% sure if the Yamato Class were the largest ever buit, but they were definitely larger than the Iowa Class, and the Iowa Class were definitely in service durring the 2nd world war.
Hell, the Japanese signed their surrender on the deck of the Missouri (an Iowa Class).
Edit: Yup, just checked, and the Yamato Class were the largest ever built.
I think you're thinking of the Montana class, which were planned to be bigger than the Iowas, but never built, and were still going to be slightly smaller than the Yamato Class. And again it was the Iowas that were pressed into service in the Cold War, and The Missouri was involved in the Gulf War, as well as the best Steven Segal movie EVER!
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Last edited by Bring_Back_Shantz; 03-17-2010 at 08:50 AM.
Midway was a 1976 movie that had just about every major actor of the era in it
awesome movie, it's very nostalgic for me. It was quite well done for it's time.
Regarding the lack of Korean movies, perhaps M*A*S*H had something to do with that? It sort of filled the void on a weekly basis and while it was mostly a comedy, it did tackle some of the harder points.
Personally I don't think WWII can ever be overdone. It's one of the most significant events in history with far reaching affects we're still feeling today.
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