Chris Butler Discussion: Sign, or Walk?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Made this thread on 3/27. Butler's statistics after 3 games:

NYR - 3 @ CGY - 4, Butler: 0 G 1 A, +1, 3 BS, TOI: 22:39
CGY - 3 @ OTT - 6, Butler: 0 G 0 A, -1, 2 BS, 3 Hits, 1 TVA, TOI: 23:48
CGY -2 @ TOR - 3, Butler: 0 G 1 A, +1 3 BS, 2 GVA, TOI: 19:59

Keep him 1-2 years at 2M per, he isn't going to stay long term. Smid is out and he is taking his minutes, and is playing just fine. The only reason I don't see him back is Burke wanting to sign someone else with more "truculence" or more of a shut down defenseman, which I am not opposed to either. But all those Butler haters should not be surprised if he is offered to come back here for another year or two. #2 in the NHL at blocking shots, and does it on a consistent basis. For a 5/6 defenseman, he blocks a lot of shots.

[Poe969]

My biggest issue with Butler is that he doesn't do anything great. He isn't a good shut down guy and he isn't an offensive defensman...he isn't horrible at anything, he just isn't good at anything. He's an average defenseman and if you want to settle for an average guy then I guess sign him. If you want to try and see if you can find someone else to fill out the 5-7 spot then maybe take a risk on someone and end up with another Russell or maybe better and worst case scenario hope that they're at least average like Butler.

If you want the team to get better then you have to get better players. If you want this team to stay at the bottom of the league then keep the same team together.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Poe969

My biggest issue with Butler is that he doesn't do anything great. He isn't a good shut down guy and he isn't an offensive defensman...he isn't horrible at anything, he just isn't good at anything. He's an average defenseman and if you want to settle for an average guy then I guess sign him. If you want to try and see if you can find someone else to fill out the 5-7 spot then maybe take a risk on someone and end up with another Russell or maybe better and worst case scenario hope that they're at least average like Butler.

If you want the team to get better then you have to get better players. If you want this team to stay at the bottom of the league then keep the same team together.

No one's suggesting that Butler is staying for the overhaul and is part of the solution going forward. However, the idea is that he's more than a serviceable stop-gap as a 4/5/6 D until someone in Abbotsford is ready to make the leap to the NHL full-time.

Wotherspoon looks closest but needs a bit of refinement still. Wideman is back next season if he isn't dealt so we're looking at a 1-2 year contract if Butler is extended. If Butler walks it will only be to sign a more physical, punishing d-man. Guessing that the only way that youngster D-men will get a spot up in the NHL club next year is injury or if someone gets traded - you ease them into the role, not chuck them into the fire like the idiots up north are doing.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

the idea is that he's more than a serviceable stop-gap as a 4/5/6 D

Again, if all you want is a warm body then Butler's your guy. There will be a lot of the same kind of player as Butler available in July. My thinking is since we already know what we have in Butler, why not try and get something better? If we sign some random guy and he turns out to be the next Giordano or Russell that just needed a change of scenery and turns out to be a top 4 guy when he gets here then we come out ahead. If we sign a guy and he turns out to be the same as Butler then we're even. If we sign him and her turns out to be another SOB then we put him in the minors and since next years team really isn't competing for much anyway it was worth the risk.

All I'm saying is with Butler we know that we have a servicable stop-gap 4/5/6 guy, why not try and improve?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Poe969

All I'm saying is with Butler we know that we have a servicable stop-gap 4/5/6 guy, why not try and improve?

They'd also be a stop-gap 4/5/6 d-man. I can't imagine they'd be part of a long-term solution going forward. I can see Burke doing this though if Butler doesn't agree to a new contract - although I feel it's more likely that Burke offers Butler one for 1-2 years at a modest cap hit (so they don't lose him for nothing like with Cammalleri) & Butler agrees to it rather than declining and testing free agency with a lot of decent defencemen going UFA in July.

If Butler does walk, I can see Burke going for Nikitin or Niskanen, they'd make for a great defence partner for Russell - would be like a Gio - Brodie lite.

[Poe969]

I think he'll look for more than just a 4/5/6 guy if they replace Butler. If they can get a guy they think has more potential then they'd sign him and maybe he'd start as that but if there are injuries or a trade where someone gets moved, they could have a back up for that. I just think they'll try to get someone better and if no better options are there, they can try to get Butler at a decent contract.

[Gaskal]

Without Butler our NHL blueline looks like this:

Gio - Brodie
- Russell
Wideman - Smid

The most Burke will land in July is a decent 3/4 defenceman. I doubt anyone with higher upside will want to play 2nd pairing minutes on a rebuilding team when you're not considered part of the overall solution. Niskanen(3/4) & Nikitin(5/6) will likely see an increase in minutes if they sign here. Maybe we can make a run at Meszaros.

[Fire]

The fact that Burke hasn't signed Butler to an extension shows that either he is keeping his options open or Butler doesn't want to re-sign here for a reasonable amount. I'm thinking the former.

I believe Burke will look for a more truculent replacement. Is Matt Greene still any good? He's been an healthy scratch for LA a lot lately. That would make 3 truculent defenseman (Gio, Smid and Greene) on the team. With Brodie, Russell and Wideman being on the softer side.

[united]

Niskanen should be the guy they go after - he's having a great season playing beside the youngster, Maatta, and is right-handed. But as others have said, the Penguins will probably try and retain him, and if not would he even leave for a team like the Flames?

I would take a look at a guy like Mark Fayne who is quietly a solid defenceman for the Devils: cheaper than Butler, six months younger (both are young, relatively), shoots right-handed, and at 6'3/210 he fits the Burke big model although he doesn't appear to be truculent with none of those types of penalties (roughing, fighting, hitting from behind, charging, etc.). Also a competent penalty killer.

Matt Greene does seem like the ideal Burke defenceman and he's right-handed - I think you guys are onto something if the interest was mutual. He does like Alberta and attends the Big Valley Jamboree...

Really there isn't much available via UFA, unless they go for a big vet in his mid-30s to mentor for a year or two, like Ron Hainsey or Brooks Orpik (both left-handed).

[btimbit]

Not against keeping him, but do we really need him?

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman
Smid - Wotherspoon/Breen/Cundari/Billins/Smith/UFA/Other Prospect

It's not like Butler is the liability he used to be, in fact he's been quite adequate. And it's not like keeping him automatically means no other prospects get a chance, or there's no room for a new UFA or something as that opens more doors for trade possibilities.

My ramblings aside, I suppose I don't really care what happens either way with Butler. If he's here next year, fine with me. If he's not, also fine with me.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I think the Butler situation will just be a bittersweet feeling, I'm fine with either decision as well. Good enough to stay, but also bad enough to go. Essentially, it's up to Burke. If he doesn't like what he sees in free agency, probably will offer Butler something if Butler wants to stay.

Probably would be best to go for Niskanen or Greene. I think Wotherspoon is a good 5/6/7 defenseman for now.

[EldrickOnIce]

If it is in fact Butler who does @boringmonahan then it is a no brainer and he must be retained, whatever the cost

[ForeverFlameFan]

CGY - 4 @ TBL - 1, Butler: 0 G 0 A, -1, 3 BS, 3 GVA, 1 Hit, TOI: 24:18

Bad game for him since he had to eat a lot of minutes, and was on the ice for the only goal for the Lightning. The one statistic I can never get tired of is his willingness to block shots every game.

[Gaskal]

How's Butler a -1? Thought it was a PPG or does the guy in the box get the minus?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

How's Butler a -1? Thought it was a PPG or does the guy in the box get the minus?

Lightning were 0/3 on the PP yesterday. I don't remember, maybe their power play ended and they just continued play in our zone and we couldn't get it out. Regardless, it was an even strength goal. This pretty much tells you the Butler should only play 5/6 minutes and he won't make has much mistakes. He has been playing top 4 minutes since Smid is out.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

CGY - 4 @ TBL - 1, Butler: 0 G 0 A, -1, 3 BS, 3 GVA, 1 Hit, TOI: 24:18

Bad game for him since he had to eat a lot of minutes, and was on the ice for the only goal for the Lightning. The one statistic I can never get tired of is his willingness to block shots every game.

To clarify, it was not a bad game...

Flames held the Lighting to 1 Goal Against. Lighting are a really good team.

[Poe969]

But Butler was on for that one goal....

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by flambers

To clarify, it was not a bad game...

Flames held the Lighting to 1 Goal Against. Lighting are a really good team.

He was on the ice for that lone goal, and had three giveaways. Wasn't his best game, the team played great, but when you pick at the individuals I wouldn't give Butler a good grade for this one.

[SeanCharles]

I'll admit Butler is probably my least favorite Flame... But I can also admit he has taken a step forward this year.

All that being said I still think an upgrade would be ideal.

With Gio, Brodie, Russell and Smid all big parts of the team, and the future, I feel like he is redundant.

We need a bigger RH guy.

Gio
Brodie
Russell
Smid
Wideman
*New guy*
Wotherspoon
Sieloff

I'm not positive Cundari, Breen or Billins are fulltime NHLers... Ramage has a uphill battle to even get spot duty and the rest of the guys (Kanzig, Culkin, Kulak, Roy) are years away before we even have a better understanding of their true potential.

Hope and pray some how, some way we draft Ekblad in June, the Free Agent market isnt too great so if that falls through a trade or re-signing Butler will be the only ideal options..

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

He was on the ice for that lone goal, and had three giveaways. Wasn't his best game, the team played great, but when you pick at the individuals I wouldn't give Butler a good grade for this one.

The team played great? Only person who was great was Ramo. That was probably as much as an undeserving win as possible.