Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

We have building codes. Make it code, no vinyl siding in a hail belt that can been defined with previous claims.



But vinyl is made from petrochemicals in Alberta, so the odds of government doing that are probably pretty slim.

I know you hate the oil industry as a whole but it is less so the feedstock material and moreso the cost of the product to the builders. It's not the oil industry telling the government what the building code should be to their benefit as much as it is the home builders dictating standards as they can profit.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I know you hate the oil industry as a whole but it is less so the feedstock material and moreso the cost of the product to the builders. It's not the oil industry telling the government what the building code should be to their benefit as much as it is the home builders dictating standards as they can profit.

Gotta love being in the stage of capitalism where we have arguments about which industry has captured the regulator

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I know you hate the oil industry as a whole but it is less so the feedstock material and moreso the cost of the product to the builders. It's not the oil industry telling the government what the building code should be to their benefit as much as it is the home builders dictating standards as they can profit.

I don't hate the oil industry. I'm pointing out the reality of the people who have the ability to make the change have shown they have an extreme bias supporting the oil industry and would be unlikely to make policy that reduces the use of products from that industry in our own province. This isn't some extreme hate filled position here, it's a reasonable analysis of the current situation.


Do you think it would be a good idea to limit the use of vinyl siding in hail prone areas to help reduce insurance claims and costs?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't hate the oil industry. I'm pointing out the reality of the people who have the ability to make the change have shown they have an extreme bias supporting the oil industry and would be unlikely to make policy that reduces the use of products from that industry in our own province. This isn't some extreme hate filled position here, it's a reasonable analysis of the current situation.


Do you think it would be a good idea to limit the use of vinyl siding in hail prone areas to help reduce insurance claims and costs?

It’s a simple NPV calc. When I replaced siding due to hail the future insurance discount was not sufficient to cover the difference between Hardy board and viny over a 20 year payback using a 3% discount rate.

Do you have some kind of more general study demonstrating the break even point? The problem could be profit taking by the insurers but when I priced it out it wasn’t particularly close.

[Fuzz]

So you based it on the insurance discount? That's my point, we all pay for that. When I priced it out for my house, it was about 2.5x on the material cost. Labour is probably a bit more expensive for hail resistant siding, but labour will also be about 3x material cost, so that's the biggest expense. If you have to redo your house 2 or 3 times in 20 years(lets pretend insurance wasn't covering it) there is no logical way that makes sense financially. Plus you have to deal with the replacement event hassles, and live in a house with ugly plastic siding that gets uglier over the years.


I'm just saying either ban it, or let the homeowner pay for it, if that is their risk choice. Why should my premiums cover risky decisions like that?

[puffnstuff]

Seems accurate

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024/11/...Fixing-Things/

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So you based it on the insurance discount? That's my point, we all pay for that. When I priced it out for my house, it was about 2.5x on the material cost. Labour is probably a bit more expensive for hail resistant siding, but labour will also be about 3x material cost, so that's the biggest expense. If you have to redo your house 2 or 3 times in 20 years(lets pretend insurance wasn't covering it) there is no logical way that makes sense financially. Plus you have to deal with the replacement event hassles, and live in a house with ugly plastic siding that gets uglier over the years.


I'm just saying either ban it, or let the homeowner pay for it, if that is their risk choice. Why should my premiums cover risky decisions like that?

Why shouldn’t the payout be on the insurance discount?

They have all of the actuarial date to calculate the change in risk of housing by siding type. They ask for the siding type when you get insurance and insurance is a somewhat competitive market.

In that scenario your insurance should be based on your calculated risk and the discount based on the change in risk. If it isn’t then insurance is over charging a lower risk group which is a competitive opportunity to capture market share. Insurance makes you change your water heater at 12 years or doesn’t cover you from flooding caused by it. They give you discounts for winter tires.

There whole system is based on calculating the likelihood of events as close to the individual risk as possible. Insurance rate savings should be the correct metric to drive change in construction methods during rebuilds.

I think your incident rate of 3/20 years is far too high. 1/20 is likely closer for siding. There’s a reason the updated roofs payout over the life time insurance premiums and the siding doesn’t.

[Fuzz]

You are essentially arguing that the system works, and it's OK that we replace siding so often. I'm not alone on thinking this is dumb.

"Unfortunately, vinyl siding and shingles are probably the worst thing you can have in your house in the event of a severe storm like this," said Brimelow.

"If I could wave a magic wand, [for] certain communities that are prone to hail, there would be different building codes in place to make sure that you do have siding that's hail resilient and shingles that are resilient to hail."

Ward 5 Coun. Raj Dhaliwal is advocating for changes to provincial building codes.

He says recently constituents have been asking the city to make bylaw changes to ensure their homes are protected from hailstorms. Many of their homes were damaged last week for the second time in four years.

"These areas that are prone to these kinds of damages every second year, every third year — let's make sure that the builders are required to put in the material that can withstand these kinds of storms in the future," said Dhaliwal.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...odes-1.7290549

So I'm not sure my estimate of 2 or 3 in 20 years is out of line for some communities.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You are essentially arguing that the system works, and it's OK that we replace siding so often. I'm not alone on thinking this is dumb.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...odes-1.7290549

So I'm not sure my estimate of 2 or 3 in 20 years is out of line for some communities.

I’m arguing that the system to identify when we have reached the break even point on what siding has the lowest lifecycle cost as climate change increases storm risks work.

This is where I go back to the insurance companies. They have the best data for losses in Calgary. Far better than you I or the councillor.

And at least in my case using a 20 yr shingle life paid out to go to a class 4 shingle.

[The Yen Man]

I asked my insurance company if I would get a break if I switched over to Hardie board siding as I filed my claim for the August storm, and they said no. So what incentive is there for me to pay out of pocket for something that doesn't lower my insurance costs? I'd rather just stick with vinyl siding again, and if it gets damaged the next time, I'll file for the claim again.

To be fair, my parents have owned their house for 40 years, and this is the first year they had to claim hail damage on their siding. For me, this would be my 15th year before claiming for the first time. So maybe insurance companies have the data to back up why it costs them less to not have people switch to more resistant siding.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I asked my insurance company if I would get a break if I switched over to Hardie board siding as I filed my claim for the August storm, and they said no. So what incentive is there for me to pay out of pocket for something that doesn't lower my insurance costs? I'd rather just stick with vinyl siding again, and if it gets damaged the next time, I'll file for the claim again.

To be fair, my parents have owned their house for 40 years, and this is the first year they had to claim hail damage on their siding. For me, this would be my 15th year before claiming for the first time. So maybe insurance companies have the data to back up why it costs them less to not have people switch to more resistant siding.

We installed the impact resistant rubber roof tiles and I also don't believe we get any sort of insurance discount for making that upgrade.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I asked my insurance company if I would get a break if I switched over to Hardie board siding as I filed my claim for the August storm, and they said no. So what incentive is there for me to pay out of pocket for something that doesn't lower my insurance costs? I'd rather just stick with vinyl siding again, and if it gets damaged the next time, I'll file for the claim again.

To be fair, my parents have owned their house for 40 years, and this is the first year they had to claim hail damage on their siding. For me, this would be my 15th year before claiming for the first time. So maybe insurance companies have the data to back up why it costs them less to not have people switch to more resistant siding.

FYI

Some insurance companies are talking about treating vinyl siding like roofing, applying depreciation and settling on an ACV basis.

No more replacement cost

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

FYI

Some insurance companies are talking about treating vinyl siding like roofing, applying depreciation and settling on an ACV basis.

No more replacement cost

For the 1991 Hailstorm, at my parent's house, we had just renovated, and the vinyl siding was less than a year old, and survived, meanwhile everyone else had their siding trashed. Most house still had the original aluminum siding on at that time.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

FYI

Some insurance companies are talking about treating vinyl siding like roofing, applying depreciation and settling on an ACV basis.

No more replacement cost

Honestly, this was my first insurance claim on siding, and I had assumed they already did that, so I guess I was pleasantly surprised (for me financially anyways) that it wasn't and I didn't have to pay additionally out of pocket other than for my deductible.

[Raekwon]

The major factor in the cost of Vinyl siding also is that the siding producers change the pattern every few years, its no coincidence they understand the insurance industry quite well. Property insurance = replacement cost, replacing a few rows of siding would be cheap but they don't make your pattern anymore so they can't mix and match so they wrap the whole house. Change that to a hard siding and you can repair and/or paint reducing the cost significantly.

Edit: Looks like a site is up explaining all of the reform changes. https://care-first.alberta.ca/

[woob]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Edit: Looks like a site is up explaining all of the reform changes. https://care-first.alberta.ca/

Question
How much will I save and when will I get it?
Answer
Drivers will save an average of $400 per year, and they will see these savings beginning in January 2027.

So bets on current premiums rising more than $400/year and by the time this is fully implemented, we'll still be paying more than we do now?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by woob

So bets on current premiums rising more than $400/year and by the time this is fully implemented, we'll still be paying more than we do now?

My rates went down this year, in an untenable situation (by insurers words). I’d be shocked if my rates go up.

I’m curious what people who just accept their increased rate every year will go up though.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

We installed the impact resistant rubber roof tiles and I also don't believe we get any sort of insurance discount for making that upgrade.

I am with Cooperators and they gave me $550 the year I installed the rubber roof tiles.

[BlackArcher101]

I was able to take part of the subsidized program to get hail resistant shingles installed. When I called insurance they didn't care one iota.
Which is odd, as I thought that program was partially funded by insurance companies.

[puffnstuff]

Good news, someone is getting a raise due to the cost of living

https://www.mylethbridgenow.com/4822...e-alberta-ndp/

Guess what the bad news is...