Canadian DMCA to be introduced in June

[Azure]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

The thought process is astounding. Anyways, you are really hurting the industry and people like me who want to pay for content, because of people like you I have to pay more.

Originally Posted by The Ditch

You want me to explain why the industry and consumers paying for their media are hurt by people who are illegally downloading the media?

Except my post has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with the industry not adapting to the changing world, and as a result they suffer.

And the consumer might suffer too, but they'll just pass the burden on.

Explain to me why I should have sympathy for multi-billion dollar companies who are too stupid to get on with the times?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Azure

Except my post has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with the industry not adapting to the changing world, and as a result they suffer.

And the consumer might suffer too, but they'll just pass the burden on.

Explain to me why I should have sympathy for multi-billion dollar companies who are too stupid to get on with the times?

Do you feel the same way about oil companies who are scrambling to sustain their business model in a world where there is pressure to adapt new forms of clean energy?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

What about NHL hockey? Is that more recreational than monetary? How is that different than watching guys at the local outdoor rink play on a weekend? Maybe you should be getting free Flames tickets.

You do realize NHL hockey, as well as basically all sports are also being pirated in a way where illegal streams are up for people who don't want to pay?

And yet NHL revenues are up 5%. For 5 straight years, in the middle of a recession.

Truth is that pirating will never stop. The NHL has just been smart about it and offered an incredible online way of watching NHL hockey. Gamecenter is pure win, and I know for a fact that a lot of people that previously watched illegal streams have just bought the Gamecenter package.

Same with MLBTV and many others.

Its all about the industry adapting. Because no illegal stream can beat a $99/year MLBTV package where I can watch every single game in HD.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Do you feel the same way about oil companies who are scrambling to sustain their business model in a world where there is pressure to adapt new forms of clean energy?

Oil companies aren't scrambling. They're still recording record profits.

I think that with time alternative energy sources will become more viable and more profitable, and as a result oil, coal and other non 'clean' energy sources will fall to the wayside.

It an oil company is smart, they would adapt to the 'green' movement and spend their record profits on developing alternative sources, while at the same time making the 'oil process' cleaner.

Which they are. If you take some time to read about the process of extracting oil from the tar sands you'll find that ever since the first 'well' was dug, the process has become a lot more efficient, and a lot more 'cleaner.'

Doesn't make it any less 'dirty'....as in I would still prefer to alternative energy sources were developed, but I think oil companies have done a pretty good job adapting. Partly due to regulations, partly due to it being worth it financially.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Azure

You do realize NHL hockey, as well as basically all sports are also being pirated in a way where illegal streams are up for people who don't want to pay?

And yet NHL revenues are up 5%. For 5 straight years, in the middle of a recession.

Truth is that pirating will never stop. The NHL has just been smart about it and offered an incredible online way of watching NHL hockey. Gamecenter is pure win, and I know for a fact that a lot of people that previously watched illegal streams have just bought the Gamecenter package.

Same with MLBTV and many others.

Its all about the industry adapting. Because no illegal stream can beat a $99/year MLBTV package where I can watch every single game in HD.

I was more talking about his assertion that music shouldn't have a monetary value attached to it, like other things.

I actually agree with some of what you're saying about the entertainment companies not having dealt with things properly. No arguement there.

But I still think consumers are way to quick to justify what is essentially theft. Like I said..Itunes is now in place. Lots of people are still downloading music for free. Itunes also offers movies. They are getting there. Yet there is still a lot of people who would rather use the free options to get these things.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Do you feel the same way about oil companies who are scrambling to sustain their business model in a world where there is pressure to adapt new forms of clean energy?

Haha..

Where is this happening?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I was more talking about his assertion that music shouldn't have a monetary value attached to it, like other things.

I actually agree with some of what you're saying about the entertainment companies not having dealt with things properly. No arguement there.

But I still think consumers are way to quick to justify what is essentially theft. Like I said..Itunes is now in place. Lots of people are still downloading music for free. Itunes also offers movies. They are getting there. Yet there is still a lot of people who would rather use the free options to get these things.

Meh.

I don't think you'll ever get people to completely stop illegally downloading anything.

Important thing is to have the technology in place so the law-abiding citizen can use iTunes or whatever.

The rest don't worry about, because they're not going to buy music anyways.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Haha..

Where is this happening?

My point is that any business in any industry would try to protect its interests in the face of lost, or potential lost profits. You don't think the oil companies are paying close attention to whats happening in the energy sector that might effect their bottom line?

So to come out and rail against the music industry because they "didn't get with the times" while it might be true to some extent, isn't a good excuse for outright piracy.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I was more talking about his assertion that music shouldn't have a monetary value attached to it, like other things.

I actually agree with some of what you're saying about the entertainment companies not having dealt with things properly. No arguement there.

But I still think consumers are way to quick to justify what is essentially theft. Like I said..Itunes is now in place. Lots of people are still downloading music for free. Itunes also offers movies. They are getting there. Yet there is still a lot of people who would rather use the free options to get these things.

This mostly stems from my belief that music is one of those things that is a naturally-occurring and intrinsic part of being human, though I think that's a philosophical discussion that is beyond the scope of this thread

[HeartsOfFire]

If it was brought up in earlier pages, I apologize:

I spent some time today going through Bill C-32 and its amendments to the current Copyright Act.

There are some good points, particularly how it allows the owner of a software license to modify said software for the purposes of improving compatability or strict private use. In fact, if it weren't for some unacceptable provisions, I would support it.

Alas, the implication that breaking digital locks serves as an automatic infringement on copyright is something I wholeheartedly disagree with and cannot abide in the slightest.

But then there's this interesting tidbit... Straight from the bill itself:

[Copyright ingringement] does not apply to a person who circumvents a technolog- ical protection measure if


(a) the work, performer’s performance fixed in a sound recording or sound recording that is protected by the technological protection measure is not accompanied by a notice indicating that its use will permit a third party to collect and communicate personal information relating to the user or, in the case where it is accompanied by such a notice, the user is not provided with the option to prevent the collection and communication of personal information without the user’s use of it being restricted; and


(b) the only purpose of circumventing the technological protection measure is to verify whether it permits the collection or communication of personal information and, if it does, to prevent it.


So I interpret this as, if a media format has a digital lock on it, the producer of the media must a) inform you that its use will activate a means for a third party to collect personal information on you AND b) give you instructions on how to opt out of said information collection OR allow you to dictate how said personal information will be used..

Failure to abide means it's perfectly okay to circumvent any and all digital locks.

Am I right? Or is someone more versed in Legalese than I and could provide a better translation?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Haha..

Where is this happening?

Perhaps something like this report from yesterday:

Ontario is rushing too quickly into expensive renewable energy plays, when natural gas offers some breathing room on energy supply, says Greg Ebel.

Ebel has an interest in the issue. As chief executive of Houston-based Spectra Energy, which owns Union Gas, he’s in the natural gas pipeline business.

But Ebel says the development of shale gas deposits has so vastly increased reserves of relatively clean energy in North America that there’s time to take a more measured approach to renewables.

http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...newable-energy

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

....

Am I right? Or is someone more versed in Legalese than I and could provide a better translation?

That's the way I took it and that's not such a bad thing.

There is also some good fair dealing provisions in there with regards to satire, parody, education, criticism and review which was never specifically covered before and that's a good thing.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Perhaps something like this report from yesterday:
http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...newable-energy

Yeah, so the opposite of what he said.

[photon]

https://twitter.com/TonyClement_MP

I don't read twitter usually so I completely lack the ability to follow conversations about what's being said, but supposedly there's some good info in there. Anyone willing to translate?

Originally Posted by Azure

As they should.

Shut down the sites that are offering this illegal content. That is the only way to stop it.

A torrent site should be as responsible for indexing torrents as much as Google should be responsible for indexing sites with illegal materials.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Azure

Truth is that pirating will never stop. The NHL has just been smart about it and offered an incredible online way of watching NHL hockey. Gamecenter is pure win, and I know for a fact that a lot of people that previously watched illegal streams have just bought the Gamecenter package.

I know a guy, we'll just call him BilsonTwoFive, that used to constantly watch NHL games via illegal streams.

After subscribing to Gamecenter this past year (it isn't really THAT expensive), he'd never go without it and feels it was worth every single penny.

[wpgflamesfan]

Having read a couple articles about this they mention that recording materials (PVR) for later use would be ok. How does recording a show on my PVR differ from downloading a show on to my computer, assuming I pay for cable?

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Igottago

My point is that any business in any industry would try to protect its interests in the face of lost, or potential lost profits. You don't think the oil companies are paying close attention to whats happening in the energy sector that might effect their bottom line?

So to come out and rail against the music industry because they "didn't get with the times" while it might be true to some extent, isn't a good excuse for outright piracy.

See, that's the thing, they aren't lost profits because a pirate was never going to pay for it in the first place. I understand your stance on pirating and how it's illegal, but its simply not true that companies are losing sales because of pirates. It's the small guys that get the brunt of pirating and I'm definitely not advocating it.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Do you feel the same way about oil companies who are scrambling to sustain their business model in a world where there is pressure to adapt new forms of clean energy?

I doubt he does. (I think) his point is that in the case of media, people have found, refined and begun using methods to circumvent the company's death grip on the status quo. In other words, the people got pissed about how the industry operated and did something about it (rightful or wrongful).

In the oil company scenario, the people may have started getting angry but have yet to really do fu*k all about it. I mean, if we really cared that much, we'd all be burning McDonald's french fry oil in our cars and growing algae in the bath tub.

Back to Pastiche's original point......I understand the mood/tone that he's trying to tap into.. After decades of being essentially forced into replacing collections over and over again, paying outrageous prices each time, I finally got sick of it as well. Much of my current digital music library has been downloaded.....but I've got *zero* guilt attached to albums I've already bought before.

Where the record industry (for example) used to thrive was in format shifting. Issue everything on vinyl. Sales start to dip, move to cassette. Of course, getting a quality record player (as most can tell you) was essentially impossible during the (late) 1980-2005. Sales start to dip again, move to CD, and so on, and so on. Where they're angry now is that by becoming digital, they've lost their industry leverage....not their copyright. For the first time EVER, people can do pretty much whatever they want.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

See, that's the thing, they aren't lost profits because a pirate was never going to pay for it in the first place. I understand your stance on pirating and how it's illegal, but its simply not true that companies are losing sales because of pirates. It's the small guys that get the brunt of pirating and I'm definitely not advocating it.

I think the problem is, the general population have become pirates, and it has been deemed acceptable to do so by most. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned they asked parents when the last time they bought their kids music. It doesn't happen. There has a been a shift in mentally where music is now deemed as something you acquire for free. Thats what I've observed anyways. I don't have any concrete evidence or statistics.

So to me it seems, its not just lost profits in terms of pirates who wouldn't buy the stuff anyways. Its that mainstream cultural and consumer behaviour is/has changed significantly enough where people don't even think of buying it if they like it. They just download it.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I think the problem is, the general population have become pirates, and it has been deemed acceptable to do so by most. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned they asked parents when the last time they bought their kids music. It doesn't happen. There has a been a shift in mentally where music is now deemed as something you acquire for free. Thats what I've observed anyways. I don't have any concrete evidence or statistics.

So to me it seems, its not just lost profits in terms of pirates who wouldn't buy the stuff anyways. Its that mainstream cultural and consumer behaviour is/has changed significantly enough where people don't even think of buying it if they like it. They just download it.

Yes, and as many have said, we must blame (rightfully) the media industries for allowing this culture to form by not providing their media in the forms demanded by the consumers before piracy took hold.

It will take time to turn the tide. Media companies need to figure how to deliver their media in the format, quality, freedom, convenience and price that consumers are demanding. Essentially, consumers need to dictate how the industry will work, instead of the other way around.

But until then, we get sh*t like this:

http://i.imgur.com/Ilx5a.png