Francis: It's time for the Flames to get serious about bottoming out

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Surely the Flames would eat money on a Kadri deal with their cap situation if it meaningfully helped the return.

This and 3 years after I am not convinced they will be looking to retain for that long

[PuckSlap]

I’m glad you guys enjoyed my article

I mean Eric’s article

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Out of thanks, but thanks!!


Until Conroy formally announces a rebuild, some people just won't agree that this is a rebuild. Maybe picking in the top 3 would convince some. I am not sure what will.

Way too many people put too much stock into what a player or GM says in the media.

Conroy knows right now that this team is at risk of being out of it maybe as soon as the next 5 games if they don't start winning. He also knows that rarely will you ever see major trades to offload big salary players happen before November, rarely before the new year even. So why would he announce to the media that he plans to rip it apart now when he probably has little options for trades in the next several weeks.

I personally want him to make a trade "now" but for me now means before the Xmas break. I would be shocked if he made a deal in the next 2-4 weeks

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I think if we just became a team that makes indiscriminate trades, our fanbase would be the happiest in the league. One a week might be good.

You are the worst team in a generation!!!

Ya but we trade a lot!

Only one a week? Must mean that Conroy's trying to make the playoffs. The most Flames thing ever.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by really?

Coleman is on a good deal for what he brings. Kadri is market at best, and I think this is a real issue at this point. I know the consensus is he’s a Calgary guy, but he’s a professional hockey player and I don’t imagine he signed up for this. There was smoke around him this summer and much like with Markstrom, it would be naive to believe it’s all team generated. Dealing him involves interesting possibilities, but it’s not an easy contract to move.

Coleman has been sliding for over a season. He made a lot of bad plays against Montreal - really struggled. And I don't think his deal is market for a 3rd liner, which is what he is now.

[ViKen]

Francis should rename himself Captain Obvious. This club is a joke. Been cheering them on since they (and my family) arrived in Calgary in 1980. Except for 2 years out of 45 (ok, perhaps 3 seasons), it's been a wasted investment in time and energy. Calgary culture (and society) has evolved into one of expecting instant gratification and sucking for more than 2 seasons into a rebuild would probably lead to talks of a relocation when no one shows up or tunes in to watch.

It's been historically (almost) impossible to build a winner finishing middle of the pack all the time which has been the Flames curse, but do fans have the stomach for it? Does that owner guy who happily lives in the UK have the stomach for it even with a new stadium on the horizon?

[really?]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman has been sliding for over a season. He made a lot of bad plays against Montreal - really struggled. And I don't think his deal is market for a 3rd liner, which is what he is now.

Perhaps at this point, but he recently potted 20 and brought a truckload of intangibles. Up until the recent downturn I would say that contract was market or better.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ViKen

Francis should rename himself Captain Obvious. This club is a joke. Been cheering them on since they (and my family) arrived in Calgary in 1980. Except for 2 years out of 45 (ok, perhaps 3 seasons), it's been a wasted investment in time and energy. Calgary culture (and society) has evolved into one of expecting instant gratification and sucking for more than 2 seasons into a rebuild would probably lead to talks of a relocation when no one shows up or tunes in to watch.

It's been historically (almost) impossible to build a winner finishing middle of the pack all the time which has been the Flames curse, but do fans have the stomach for it? Does that owner guy who happily lives in the UK have the stomach for it even with a new stadium on the horizon?

I really disagree with this.

The last rebuild was pulled after the team just got better. Gaudreau and Giordano emerged as forces.

The reason for the last rebuild failing also had zero to do with not drafting enough players. They drafted Bennett and Tkachuk. Both proven winners and one even won a Conn Smythe. The problems were with coaching, asset management, bad luck with the Monahan injuries and wasting seasons on bad goalies, not pulling the rebuild early.

[Strange Brew]

Navigating a Kadri trade would be the most challenging thing Conroy has done to date as a GM. The stakes are rather high and lots of complexities between retention, NMC’s, player and team attitudes, possibility of decline etc.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

I’m glad you guys enjoyed my article

I mean Eric’s article

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Navigating a Kadri trade would be the most challenging thing Conroy has done to date as a GM. The stakes are rather high and lots of complexities between retention, NMC’s, player and team attitudes, possibility of decline etc.

Maybe not.

Soon Conroy will be able to trade him to any of 13 teams when Naz's MNTC kicks in.

So, approach him now and say the team plans to move on from Naz after July (or whenever the MNTC goes into effect). Give me a list of 7 teams you'll accept a trade to now and you can at least have a bit more control and another cup run.

Folks can argue that's mean or whatever. But this is a cut throat business and I don't see a problem with doing that.

But Conroy has to grow a pair and be decisive. All this, 'he wants to stay' and 'I will respect the spirit of the contract' has to stop. Kadri is rich, he'll be fine.

Make a decision Craig, stop expecting them to be made for you.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by really?

Perhaps at this point, but he recently potted 20 and brought a truckload of intangibles. Up until the recent downturn I would say that contract was market or better.

He actually potted 30. But that was two seasons ago. Last year his production was cut in half (over 4 more games). And his defence, which is what he's really paid for, was off even more.

$4.9M seems to me to be pretty high for a 3rd line defensive winger. He makes more than Vatrano, Neideraiter, Marchment, Jenner, etc.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Flames currently have 8 picks in the 2026 draft, 5 in the 1st three rounds (2x1st / 1x2nd/ 2x3rd)

Hopefully by the time draft rolls around they have 10-12 picks overall for that draft and 7-8 in the 1st 3 rounds...including their own which could easily be top 3-5. Moving Andersson, Coleman and possibly even Kadri would likely accomplish all of this.

Other than high picks, I think that the better strategy is to have picks spaced over drafts as they have been doing. Having too many picks in any one year risks having too many players of a specific age.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Maybe not.

Soon Conroy will be able to trade him to any of 13 teams when Naz's MNTC kicks in.

So, approach him now and say the team plans to move on from Naz after July (or whenever the MNTC goes into effect). Give me a list of 7 teams you'll accept a trade to now and you can at least have a bit more control and another cup run.

Folks can argue that's mean or whatever. But this is a cut throat business and I don't see a problem with doing that.

But Conroy has to grow a pair and be decisive. All this, 'he wants to stay' and 'I will respect the spirit of the contract' has to stop. Kadri is rich, he'll be fine.

Make a decision Craig, stop expecting them to be made for you.

There is some risk to that. If you tell Kadri you are going to exert leverage over his contract, he can do the same.
By that I mean, when the MNTC goes into effect, it still is a pretty big one with a 13 team no trade list.
He and his agent can work that list to include only teams likely to trade for him, thus blocking most scenarios.
So you create a list that is largely
- Contending teams
- Teams with cap space
Etc.

Thus you have a no trade list of teams wanting to acquire him and with the means, and a list of available teams, that wouldn't want him, essentially making a move REALLY hard.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There is some risk to that. If you tell Kadri you are going to exert leverage over his contract, he can do the same.
By that I mean, when the MNTC goes into effect, it still is a pretty big one with a 13 team no trade list.
He and his agent can work that list to include only teams likely to trade for him, thus blocking most scenarios.
So you create a list that is largely
- Contending teams
- Teams with cap space
Etc.

Thus you have a no trade list of teams wanting to acquire him and with the means, and a list of available teams, that wouldn't want him, essentially making a move REALLY hard.

Puckpedia states that he already has a 13 team no trade list. So presumably he has already submitted it. But theoretically he could say you can trade me to the following teams

Wild
Utah
Nashville
Blackhawks
Oilers
Sharks
Kings
Ducks
Buffalo
Tampa Bay
Bruins
Panthers
Penguins
Islanders
Blue Jackets
Flyers
Blues

And it becomes pretty hard to trade him. This idea that you can bully him into a trade is crazy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think for some they'll just pivot to something else to complain about.

True, but then at least having a different argument in itself brings relief, no? A very short while most likely, but at least some relief.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

*Edit for brevity*
Buffalo
Panthers

And it becomes pretty hard to trade him. This idea that you can bully him into a trade is crazy.

I wouldn't agree with bullying him into trading him - Conroy should work with him, but still get that NTC submitted anyway. However, from that list, I can see two teams that would show interest.


The Panthers are missing Barkov. Would they make a trade to strengthen down the middle? Tough to potentially bunt a season in the middle of your contention window.


Buffalo needs an injection of leadership - they want 'win now' players, and are willing to part with futures. That's interesting.


I think it will be difficult for Kadri to cover-up all the potential landing spots. There will still be a couple that poke out that the Flames could trade him to, but I still think they work together on it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Surely the Flames would eat money on a Kadri deal with their cap situation if it meaningfully helped the return.

It would have to be pretty meaningful because of the term

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I wouldn't agree with bullying him into trading him - Conroy should work with him, but still get that NTC submitted anyway. However, from that list, I can see two teams that would show interest.


The Panthers are missing Barkov. Would they make a trade to strengthen down the middle? Tough to potentially bunt a season in the middle of your contention window.


Buffalo needs an injection of leadership - they want 'win now' players, and are willing to part with futures. That's interesting.


I think it will be difficult for Kadri to cover-up all the potential landing spots. There will still be a couple that poke out that the Flames could trade him to, but I still think they work together on it.

Well the Panthers have nothing the Flames would possibly want back. Basically no prospects and no first round picks until 2028. So I suspect the Flames do not trade him to Florida regardless of whether the Panthers want him.

Suppose Buffalo may be a risk if they think they need Kadri.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by blankall

I really disagree with this.

The last rebuild was pulled after the team just got better. Gaudreau and Giordano emerged as forces.

The reason for the last rebuild failing also had zero to do with not drafting enough players. They drafted Bennett and Tkachuk. Both proven winners and one even won a Conn Smythe. The problems were with coaching, asset management, bad luck with the Monahan injuries and wasting seasons on bad goalies, not pulling the rebuild early.

I agree with 90% of this, but arguably Treliving's biggest mistake was thinking the team was further ahead of schedule than they were and adding veteran pieces too early - essentially bailing out of the rebuild too quickly due to early progress. Imagine those Gaudreau/Tkachuk/Monahan teams with one more big young star in the mix.