Matthew Tkachuk's Contract Situation

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by timbit

I think we are on the same page. Iginla was traded before the WJC ...correct?

Yes I believe it was right before the WJC. Good thing they didn't wait until after it was over. He was terrific in that tourney.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by timbit

I think we are on the same page. Iginla was traded before the WJC ...correct?

A week before or during the tourney iirc.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Just looked it up........trade was December 20th, Canada's first game in the WJC was December 26th.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Wow, that’s crazy. Love these old stories as I am not old enough to remember them.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

His dad only cared about $$. I fear the apple doesn't fall from the tree.

Keith Tkachuk is one of the highest paid NHL players of all time. Never any major award nominations or top 10 finishes in any award category other than then once. Yet was able to parlay multiple holdouts over his career into getting millions of dollars extra and being one of the top earners ever.

Does anybody think Keith looks back at any of those holdouts and regrets not being on the ice in those moments? That he wishes he never held out and took a team discount? Dude probably looks at his bank account, does a hearty chuckle and than makes sure his children to do the same. He knew his worth, knew how to get it, and he'll make sure both Brady and Matthew do the same.

Anybody who think M. Tkachuk will do any kind of discount to help the team is kidding themselves.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t know that Iggy was an A type prospect. Ranked 15th, drafted 11th.

"Everything good, nothing outstanding," said one scout. "He might be the sleeper of the first round." I'll say. "He's not likely to ever be a star but he has a good chance to be a player."

http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...ars-later.html

I suppose he may have been more highly thought of by the time the trade happened TBF.

The one and only draft I had ever gone to.
One of the times Oiler fans knew more than Oiler management.

When the Oilers pick came, we were cheering and chanting Doan's name, and when the pick was announced as Steve Kelly, it did not go over well.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Keith Tkachuk is one of the highest paid NHL players of all time. Never any major award nominations or top 10 finishes in any award category other than then once. Yet was able to parlay multiple holdouts over his career into getting millions of dollars extra and being one of the top earners ever.

Does anybody think Keith looks back at any of those holdouts and regrets not being on the ice in those moments? That he wishes he never held out and took a team discount? Dude probably looks at his bank account, does a hearty chuckle and than makes sure his children to do the same. He knew his worth, knew how to get it, and he'll make sure both Brady and Matthew do the same.

Anybody who think M. Tkachuk will do any kind of discount to help the team is kidding themselves.

Or maybe he looks at his giant bank account and realizes there is no different between 100 million and 90 million in his life and advises his children that money isn’t a factor in the long run ?

None of us have any idea what discussions they have had and/or how his children view the business of the NHL

MT stated at the time of the deal he was doing a shorter deal to help the Flames short term cap situation . Don’t forget we thought we would be a contender and saving a million in cap hit for the next 3 years looked really appealing

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Or maybe he looks at his giant bank account and realizes there is no different between 100 million and 90 million in his life and advises his children that money isn’t a factor in the long run ?

None of us have any idea what discussions they have had and/or how his children view the business of the NHL

MT stated at the time of the deal he was doing a shorter deal to help the Flames short term cap situation . Don’t forget we thought we would be a contender and saving a million in cap hit for the next 3 years looked really appealing

His post entry level deal with $9 mil qualifier and earliest possible free agency tells me something else. I personally don't believe for a minute that he has the Flames best intentions at heart.

[Classic_Sniper]

Certainly saw some interesting points in the last page there, but I still like the new top line too much to break it up and I doubt Darryl will want to break them up either seeing as goal scoring has been the absolute bane of his season. This is the best Tkachuk has looked all season and I think they’ll continue to do produce with his new linemates.

In my mind, this team just needs the second line to be a bigger scoring threat because they’ve got the defensive side down. If the new second line can include Eichel, then great, but what if he only plays 20 games and we miss the playoffs again? I’m not sure I like the idea of pinning all my hopes on an injury prone Jack Eichel as my lone scoring line.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Or maybe he looks at his giant bank account and realizes there is no different between 100 million and 90 million in his life and advises his children that money isn’t a factor in the long run ?

None of us have any idea what discussions they have had and/or how his children view the business of the NHL

MT stated at the time of the deal he was doing a shorter deal to help the Flames short term cap situation . Don’t forget we thought we would be a contender and saving a million in cap hit for the next 3 years looked really appealing

You just need to look at how he handled his last negotiation to see how he’ll likely handle his next one.


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[1qqaaz]

We don't really need to discuss whether we think Tkachuk will have excessive salary demands - he already does.

It's actually pretty impressive how good of a contract Tkachuk got himself considering he had so little leverage.

Props to Don Meehan as well, here are some of the other players he currently represents: Erik Karlsson, James Neal, James Beagle, Dave Backes, PK Subban and Justin Abdelkader.
He also represented Troy Brouwer, Wade Redden, Brad Richards, Mike Richards, and Mike Ribeiro.
He has been quite good at getting top dollar for his clients.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You just need to look at how he handled his last negotiation to see how he’ll likely handle his next one.


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Signing a 3 year deal for a reasonable cap hit when the team had no cap room?

People were predicting 8-8.5 million on a 5 or 6 year deal. He signed a 3 year deal at 7 million.

If he signs his next contract for 4 years and 9 million a year (I am not sure he can actually get that - Really depends on nexts years performance) That would be a 7 year $8.15 million total deal.

If MT had signed a 7 year deal at $8.15m would anyone had batted an eye at it after the season he had when he hit RFA ?

Even with a 9 mil QO it makes his 4 years of control at 7.5 million a year post RFA.

The only way this actually hurts the Flames is if he has a monster season in 2 year (After QO) and get 10-12 million a year OR if he doesn't want to sign with the Flames after the QO year.

And if it is the latter - The structure of the contract is irrelevant, as he was never going to sign a long term deal.


Nothing really alludes to MT NOT helping the Flames by taking a shorter deal to save the Flames cap room. The issue is this season he was not good. If anything he may have saved the Flames money long term.

Either he wants to be a Flames and wanted to open short term cap room knowing he makes up the $$ with the QO and next contract, or he just doesn't want to be a Flame.

Right now he bet on himself and that bet doesn't look like it is paying off

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

We don't really need to discuss whether we think Tkachuk will have excessive salary demands - he already does.

It's actually pretty impressive how good of a contract Tkachuk got himself considering he had so little leverage.

Props to Don Meehan as well, here are some of the other players he currently represents: Erik Karlsson, James Neal, James Beagle, Dave Backes, PK Subban and Justin Abdelkader.
He also represented Troy Brouwer, Wade Redden, Brad Richards, Mike Richards, and Mike Ribeiro.
He has been quite good at getting top dollar for his clients.

How good of a contract? Right now if you assume the QO is picked up he got 7.5 a year for 4 year deal.

Mitch Marner got a 6 year contract at 11 million a year, that paid him... 16!!! million in year 1. Do you think MT is going to get a 2 year deal that pays 36 million to equal that deal? (And I'm not even including the present value of $$ that getting the massive $$ up front adds up too)

How much do people really think MT is getting in 2 years? Based on this season he would be lucky to get the same 7 million with revenues where they are. MT may have bet on himself continuing to improve and never could have predicted COVID that COULD have given him tons of leverage, but what are we worried about? Even a 5 year deal at 9 million next year brings his total deal to 8 years and 8.25 million $/year combining the 2 deals. A deal most would have been fine with 2 years ago for average cap hit.

I am guessing he is regretting not signing a long term contract based on this year and the economic situation.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Signing a 3 year deal for a reasonable cap hit when the team had no cap room?

People were predicting 8-8.5 million on a 5 or 6 year deal. He signed a 3 year deal at 7 million.

If he signs his next contract for 4 years and 9 million a year (I am not sure he can actually get that - Really depends on nexts years performance) That would be a 7 year $8.15 million total deal.

If MT had signed a 7 year deal at $8.15m would anyone had batted an eye at it after the season he had when he hit RFA ?

Even with a 9 mil QO it makes his 4 years of control at 7.5 million a year post RFA.

The only way this actually hurts the Flames is if he has a monster season in 2 year (After QO) and get 10-12 million a year OR if he doesn't want to sign with the Flames after the QO year.

And if it is the latter - The structure of the contract is irrelevant, as he was never going to sign a long term deal.

While he signed a 3 year deal at $7M, the deal ensured two things.

He would get a minimum of $9M in year 4, and he would be set to become a UFA as soon as possible. The apparent greatness of that cap hit is tempered by those two facts.

And since he was never going to sign a long term deal, the structure of the deal was actually everything. Johnny and Monny gave up UFA years in their contracts.

Tkachuk has the Flames over a barrel at the end of next season. He can get paid big bucks all the way to a quick UFA. That is why he signed this contract.

You talk about about his next contract being 4 years. How many players becoming a UFA at that age and production sign 4 year deals?

Now this wasn’t lost on the Flames. They needed him in the lineup after their very good season and really couldn’t afford a larger cap hit. So, they plugged their nose to get him into the lineup and worried about the consequences later. But later has started to come. If the Flames had been productive over the last two seasons, this would matter less. But that ship has sailed.


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[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

While he signed a 3 year deal at $7M, the deal ensured two things.

He would get a minimum of $9M in year 4, and he would be set to become a UFA as soon as possible. The apparent greatness of that cap hit is tempered by those two facts.

And since he was never going to sign a long term deal, the structure of the deal was actually everything. Johnny and Monny gave up UFA years in their contracts.

Tkachuk has the Flames over a barrel at the end of next season. He can get paid big bucks all the way to a quick UFA. That is why he signed this contract.

You talk about about his next contract being 4 years. How many players becoming a UFA at that age and production sign 4 year deals?

Now this wasn’t lost on the Flames. They needed him in the lineup after their very good season and really couldn’t afford a larger cap hit. So, they plugged their nose to get him into the lineup and worried about the consequences later. But later has started to come. If the Flames had been productive over the last two seasons, this would matter less. But that ship has sailed.


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Still wanting to see how MT ends up with more overall $$ over 7-8 years then if he had just signed a front loaded contract for 6 years like Marner did instead of the bridge , 9 mil QO, and the UFA (again - what do you think MT is really going to command in FA... More then 9 mil based on what’s we’ve seen the past 2 years ?)

The strategy is going to cost MT millions in present value $$ unless he is putting up 80 points the next 2 years and the NHL financials have a massive bounce back post Covid

The only risk to the Flames is he doesn’t want to play here . The structure of the contract is irrelevant if this is the case as is a player doesn’t want to play in the city they just won’t sign into those years no matter what. You say “He was never going to sign a long term deal “ - So what did you want the Flames to do then ?

Hitting UFA as soon as possible can certainly be beneficial - unless the leagues financials crumble and the player sees their performance decrease..... the exact situation we are in

Until this seasons drama MT has never shown any indication that he did not want to be a Flame long term. If he has another year like this past one Flames fans will be thanking the stars that he signed a bridge and not a 6-7 year deal

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Still wanting to see how MT ends up with more overall $$ over 7-8 years then if he had just signed a front loaded contract for 6 years like Marner did instead of the bridge , 9 mil QO, and the UFA (again - what do you think MT is really going to command in FA... More then 9 mil based on what’s we’ve seen the past 2 years ?)

The strategy is going to cost MT millions in present value $$ unless he is putting up 80 points the next 2 years and the NHL financials have a massive bounce back post Covid

The only risk to the Flames is he doesn’t want to play here . The structure of the contract is irrelevant if this is the case as is a player doesn’t want to play in the city they just won’t sign into those years no matter what. You say “He was never going to sign a long term deal “ - So what did you want the Flames to do then ?

Hitting UFA as soon as possible can certainly be beneficial - unless the leagues financials crumble and the player sees their performance decrease..... the exact situation we are in

Until this seasons drama MT has never shown any indication that he did not want to be a Flame long term. If he has another year like this past one Flames fans will be thanking the stars that he signed a bridge and not a 6-7 year deal

He didn’t sign an 8 year contract because that would have made him a UFA at a time when it wasn’t to his advantage. The younger a player hits UFA, the better the payday. Hence, he structured the deal to give him that advantage. It’s not just about getting the most over 8 years, it’s about getting the most over his career. If he produces, he was guaranteeing himself a great 12 years of money. If he had signed an 8 year deal, he would have a come a UFA at a time when he had little leverage.

Plus, he gets to choose where he wanted to play.

The Flames wanted to sign him long term, he didn’t want to do so. That was why he held out. Not necessarily because he didn’t want to play for the Flames, but because he wanted to reach UFA as soon as possible. He took a bit less AAV to receive a big $9M QO.


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[stang]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Still wanting to see how MT ends up with more overall $$ over 7-8 years then if he had just signed a front loaded contract for 6 years like Marner did instead of the bridge , 9 mil QO, and the UFA (again - what do you think MT is really going to command in FA... More then 9 mil based on what’s we’ve seen the past 2 years ?)

The strategy is going to cost MT millions in present value $$ unless he is putting up 80 points the next 2 years and the NHL financials have a massive bounce back post Covid

Hitting UFA as soon as possible can certainly be beneficial - unless the leagues financials crumble and the player sees their performance decrease..... the exact situation we are

The cap is supposed to rise again in approx 3 years. This year, next year then he takes his 9m QO and by the time he’s a 25 year old FA the cap should be going up. The US tv deal should help that. And he doesn’t have to take a long term deal in FA if he needs to wait one more year. Just like Barrie Hall and Hoffman he can take a one year short term deal and then could sign once the cap goes up more. He’s put himself in a position where he is in control.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by stang

The cap is supposed to rise again in approx 3 years. This year, next year then he takes his 9m QO and by the time he’s a 25 year old FA the cap should be going up. The US tv deal should help that. And he doesn’t have to take a long term deal in FA if he needs to wait one more year. Just like Barrie Hall and Hoffman he can take a one year short term deal and then could sign once the cap goes up more. He’s put himself in a position where he is in control.

In control doesn't mean he makes more money. MT will regret not taking a large front loaded contract like Marner when he had the chance.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

In control doesn't mean he makes more money. MT will regret not taking a large front loaded contract like Marner when he had the chance.

25 year old first line winger who plays with grit?

And it costs no assets to acquire him as a UFA?

Some GM would open the chequebook wide for that. Obviously it'll depend on his performance, but if he can come anywhere close to where he was when he signed his current deal I bet his career earnings end up higher than they would have if he signed a long term deal then.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

25 year old first line winger who plays with grit?

And it costs no assets to acquire him as a UFA?

Some GM would open the chequebook wide for that. Obviously it'll depend on his performance, but if he can come anywhere close to where he was when he signed his current deal I bet his career earnings end up higher than they would have if he signed a long term deal then.

Mitch Marner got 16!!! MILLION in year 1 of his deal. MT got 5 (He structured his contract 5-7-9 and actually deferred the longer years which is bad for value of the contract, But remember he did the Flames no favors)

So in year 1 Marner got 11 million more then MT. The first year that MT hits UFA UFA just the interest on that 11 million (4 years later) will be worth 2 million (5%/Year). You think MT is getting 2 million more then if he signed a long term deal at 8.5million? I sure don't see him as a 10 million $ player.

The value and structure of MT 3 year deal was very team friendly - especially compared to his closest RFA Marner.

Yes he expects to make it up. That's why he signed a bridge. He probably figured if he became a 90 pt guy and Captain his next contract would be in the 11 million AVV range.

However, he has become a 65-70 pt guys, with maturity questions.

He will still get paid, but combined with the 3 year bridge it is looking like a very reasonable total payout. Flames just pushed cap hit from the first 3 years down the road

And now I guess are annoyed they will see a 9 million hit on the cap instead of 8.25 that a long term contract likely would have paid (And ignoring the 1.25 million we saved to build the team!!)

In hindsight, we should have front loaded the cap hit instead of a bridge since we wasted those cap savings anyways