[Signing] Flames sign Rasmus Andersson to 6 year extension ($4.55 mil AAV)

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I disagree. I would rather the team spend a 4-6th rounder on an upgrade on Davidson rather than lose 2 top 4 D for nothing this summer especially when our GM paid a 1st and 2 2nds for one of those players (who has never been as good as his reputation)

This team is not winning a round because of Hamonic in my opinion. Valimaki is ahead of schedule so I think we see him in early March with a month to get ready for the playoffs. Because of his reputation I think teams will cover Hamonic and he can get a decent return that will help the Flames in the future. So far there is no reason for me to think this team is close enough to put their chips in for this season.

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Absolutely, hopefully get a first or 2 seconds for Hamonic, use some of our lower picks for a depth defenceman. If we let both Brodie and Hamonic walk for nothing that’ll be a disaster.

I think that this viewpoint is valid, but it is dependent on two things -

First, is that Valimaki will be back at an NHL level before, or just after the deadline.

Second, is that Brodie or Hamonic as pure rentals will bring in a 2nd round pick or better. (also it is bizarre that you think Hamonic sucks, but is also coveted)

If both of these are true, then trading one of the UFAs is a valid option. If one or neither is true then it make no sense.

BT, in the past has brought in D-depth at the trade deadline to try and avoid a disaster at towards the end of the season. If the Flames were comfortably in 1st, or clearly going to miss, the trades might happen. Because the Flames will be playing in they will need all hands on deck. It has been a while since the Flames have had bad D-depth, so we forget that we are missing out on.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

1. Edmonton
2. Edmonton
3. Edmonton
4. Edmonton
5. Edmonton
6. Vancouver Edmonton

It is interesting when you would hear players not put rival teams on their list because they would realistically never get traded there but with a lot of recent trades between Toronto-Ottawa, Calgary-Edmonton, etc. It might make sense to actually put those teams on your list now.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Absolutely, hopefully get a first or 2 seconds for Hamonic, use some of our lower picks for a depth defenceman. If we let both Brodie and Hamonic walk for nothing that’ll be a disaster.

This is such nonsense. No, it will not be a "disaster!" if one or both of Hamonic and Brodie walk this summer. It will be less than ideal, but given the circumstances it is a perfectly justifiable scenario with a fairly small downside. I cannot imagine that the return on Hamonic would be anything remotely close to what you posit. I estimate offers would probably be in the range of a third-round pick; maybe a second rounder. Of course, if someone were to offer a top-thirty pick for Hamonic, then the Flames make that deal with no questions asked.

Having said that, the Flames are presently in a situation with seven NHL defensemen on the roster. Once Valimaki is back in the lineup, that makes for eight, but he will almost certainly not be anywhere near ready before the TD. With seven NHL defensemen on the roster, no one gets moved. Theoretically, the Flames could add a defenseman, which would provide the possibility then of trading Hamonic, but again, I don't see this as especially likely unless they can upgrade the position at the same time. With how difficult it is to make deals this year I think fans should be prepared to see both Brodie and Hamonic still on the roster in March.

[Sylvanfan]

I would think at this point that Anderson is less proven that Hanifin was when he did his extension, and he's getting similar money. The cap has not moved up significantly since Hanifin did his deal. Anderson does have room for improvement in his game, but is it more than what Hanifin does?

It's a good contract, gets you term for a fixed cost on an ascending player.

But the counter argument here for me is. You have your two best forwards signed for only the next two seasons. These are also likely the two best years left for Giordano where you will draw that best value of his remaining contract. Rittich is only signed for one more season after this. Than consider that you still have cap bogey's like Brouwer for two years, plus Stone next year. So should the objective have been to lock him down for term and pay a premium these next two seasons in the name of long term gain? Or should they have looked at a bridge deal to try and save cap for the next couple of years and really go for it?

If they decide to change things up, Anderson is a longer term piece it makes good sense to lock in the term.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think that this viewpoint is valid, but it is dependent on two things -

First, is that Valimaki will be back at an NHL level before, or just after the deadline.

Second, is that Brodie or Hamonic as pure rentals will bring in a 2nd round pick or better. (also it is bizarre that you think Hamonic sucks, but is also coveted)

If both of these are true, then trading one of the UFAs is a valid option. If one or neither is true then it make no sense.

BT, in the past has brought in D-depth at the trade deadline to try and avoid a disaster at towards the end of the season. If the Flames were comfortably in 1st, or clearly going to miss, the trades might happen. Because the Flames will be playing in they will need all hands on deck. It has been a while since the Flames have had bad D-depth, so we forget that we are missing out on.

I think Hamonic brings a lot of intangibles that teams covet and has carried his reputation of being a warrior and good team guy with him which I think both are valid. What I didn’t say is that he sucks. He was never worth what Treliving paid for him in a trade and I don’t think he is the difference between making/missing the playoffs or winning a round. He was a nightmare in the playoffs last year and if he was a better player he would already be extended. He doesn’t suck but I think the hype/reputation outweigh the actual results.

At the end of the day this group has not been successful enough to have this org so thin at the prospect base. We have nothing coming up on the farm for Dmen. The Flames have a chance to change their window over the next year. Keeping and losing Brodie/Hamonic in free agency ensures this window is getting closer to closing than opening imo.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I would think at this point that Anderson is less proven that Hanifin was when he did his extension, and he's getting similar money. The cap has not moved up significantly since Hanifin did his deal. Anderson does have room for improvement in his game, but is it more than what Hanifin does?

It's a good contract, gets you term for a fixed cost on an ascending player.

But the counter argument here for me is. You have your two best forwards signed for only the next two seasons. These are also likely the two best years left for Giordano where you will draw that best value of his remaining contract. Rittich is only signed for one more season after this. Than consider that you still have cap bogey's like Brouwer for two years, plus Stone next year. So should the objective have been to lock him down for term and pay a premium these next two seasons in the name of long term gain? Or should they have looked at a bridge deal to try and save cap for the next couple of years and really go for it?

If they decide to change things up, Anderson is a longer term piece it makes good sense to lock in the term.

I honestly think that the roster is in a point of transition. Regardless of what happens this season I am betting that Treliving moves one of Gaudreau or Monahan for high-end assets, and he shifts to building around Lindholm and Tkachuk up front, and Hanifin, Andersson and hopefully Valimaki on the blue line.

This is a really important summer for Treliving.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

...At the end of the day this group has not been successful enough to have this org so thin at the prospect base. We have nothing coming up on the farm for Dmen. The Flames have a chance to change their window over the next year. Keeping and losing Brodie/Hamonic in free agency ensures this window is getting closer to closing than opening imo.

I just don't see it. If the Flames miss out on an additional second- or third-round pick, this on its own is not going to bury them. As I mentioned above, I think there will be a number of significant changes this off-season, and relative to these the return for Hamonic or Brodie at the TD is going to be fairly insignificant.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I honestly think that the roster is in a point of transition. Regardless of what happens this season I am betting that Treliving moves one of Gaudreau or Monahan for high-end assets, and he shifts to building around Lindholm and Tkachuk up front, and Hanifin, Andersson and hopefully Valimaki on the blue line.

This is a really important summer for Treliving.

Yeah I find myself worrying less about the number of years left for player x, y or z and more just seeing this for what it is ... a season with something just off

The Peters thing didn't help, but the team's on and off again attention to detail just doesn't scream push your chips in this season.

The bold move would be to move one of the D for futures, make the playoffs anyway and surprise, all the while planning to change the core in the off season.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I just don't see it. If the Flames miss out on an additional second- or third-round pick, this on its own is not going to bury them. As I mentioned above, I think there will be a number of significant changes this off-season, and relative to these the return for Hamonic or Brodie at the TD is going to be fairly insignificant.

So let me get this straight, you honestly don’t believe that having Brodie (one of our top pairing defenceman) and Hamonic (our 4th dman) walk in the off season would be a disaster? That would punch a massive hole in our d-corps that couldn’t be filled internally. We’ve gotta recoup something for these assets. If you don’t believe Hamonic will retrieve a late 1st then I can respect that, however, a 2nd or even two late seconds is certainly not farfetched.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I just don't see it. If the Flames miss out on an additional second- or third-round pick, this on its own is not going to bury them. As I mentioned above, I think there will be a number of significant changes this off-season, and relative to these the return for Hamonic or Brodie at the TD is going to be fairly insignificant.

A lot does depend on what Hamonic would return. Would your thinking change if he returns a 2nd and a 3rd?

I find it very hard to believe that Treliving goes two full seasons without improving the current version of the club. Entering the 2020 playoffs with essentially the same team that started the 2018 season would be an extreme rarity. I don't see it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

So let me get this straight, you honestly don’t believe that having Brodie (one of our top pairing defenceman) and Hamonic (our 4th dman) walk in the off season would be a disaster? That would punch a massive hole in our d-corps that couldn’t be filled internally.

Giordano · Andersson
Valimaki · Hanifin
Kyllington · X
X

I don't think it is an irreparable hole, but I also expect that the Flames will re-sign Brodie.

We’ve gotta recoup something for these assets. If you don’t believe Hamonic will retrieve a late 1st then I can respect that, however, a 2nd or even two late seconds is certainly not farfetched.

Even if the Flames could turn Hamonic into a second-round pick, are you telling me that having an additional pick between #40–60 is difference enough to constitute a "disaster"? Having an additional pick is better, but it's not critical.

[activeStick]

I absolutely love hearing stories about people stepping up to criticism and rising above them and watching Andersson do this is exciting for me.

This won't be very popular, but I predict that Valimaki won't be the player he could have been. His injuries have taken key development time out of his key development years. If I had to predict, the future guy on the top pairing will be Hanifin because of this, with someone not on this roster sliding into that middle pairing.

I'm indifferent on whether Hamonic needs to be here or not for the remainder of the year. I do agree that it's much better to have him in than Stone, but if you can get something now that you may not be able to later, I'd go ahead.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

A lot does depend on what Hamonic would return. Would your thinking change if he returns a 2nd and a 3rd?

Yeah, that might do it, but I would still be hesitant without another defenseman ready to slot in.

I find it very hard to believe that Treliving goes two full seasons without improving the current version of the club. Entering the 2020 playoffs with essentially the same team that started the 2018 season would be an extreme rarity. I don't see it.

Neither do I. I think Treliving will make a significant move in the next few weeks for a top-six forward. Perhaps one of Brodie or Hamonic is included in a deal like that, but I would expect that to comprise other pieces including a defenseman to help off-set the loss.

For clarity of my position, I don't see either of the Flames pending UFA defensemen moved unless they are part of a hockey trade.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Far from baffling in my opinion. With RFA’s he has control and is able to use that as leverage to get a deal for his player. Not all RFA’s can force their way out and they want to get paid with long term security at a young age so he is able to get a fair deal typically around 6 years (Johnny, Hamilton, Hanifin, Lindholm, Andersson)

When looking at UFA’s he is competing in the open market and has the challenge of being in Calgary which results in an overpay. Calgary is a fishbowl but also a small market. We currently have a terrible building, bad weather and tons of pressure. Easily a bottom 10 if not bottom 5 destination for players. He needs to overpay for second tier guys and doesn’t get a shot at the real top end guys.

If the option is over pay for 2nd tier guys or don't sign anyone, then clearly the best option is to not sign anyone. Keep the capspace available and wait. If you need bottom roster players, guys like Rinaldo and Reider are basically free and similar players are available every year.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

For clarity of my position, I don't see either of the Flames pending UFA defensemen moved unless they are part of a hockey trade.

But is it really different if one is moved for picks and then those picks are used to acquire a player? To me that's the more likely scenario, or a 3 way trade.

Sellers won't want a pending UFA.

[ignite]

I believe Valimaki is a number 1 D-man (was projecting prior to injury)
I would prefer both Brodie and Harmonic to be traded prior to the deadline. Hated what happened to the BJ's last season.

Brodie to the leaves for a top defensive prospect and a third (conditional on re-signing, would move to a first).

Harmonic back to the Islanders, for a 2020 first and conditional third (add a 2021 second, if re-signed)

Trade Bennett and a second for Palmieri (please dude, play for the Flames!!).

Armchair GM... Obviously. Coulda posted in the rumours thread, but whatever.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Absolutely, hopefully get a first or 2 seconds for Hamonic, use some of our lower picks for a depth defenceman. If we let both Brodie and Hamonic walk for nothing that’ll be a disaster.

I'm in the Hamonic fan camp, but as a pending UFA we are not going to get a first, or two seconds, or likely even one second for him.

[ignite]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

I'm in the Hamonic fan camp, but as a pending UFA we are not going to get a first, or two seconds, or likely even one second for him.

To a team like NYI or the Jets, I believe you certainly would get a first +. Dude is quality.
The acquiring team has first chance to re-sign him too. That's enough to jump up a draft round

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I find myself worrying less about the number of years left for player x, y or z and more just seeing this for what it is ... a season with something just off

The Peters thing didn't help, but the team's on and off again attention to detail just doesn't scream push your chips in this season.

The bold move would be to move one of the D for futures, make the playoffs anyway and surprise, all the while planning to change the core in the off season.

Does it feel like GG's second year to you? Coming off a pretty decent regular season and a pummeling by the Ducks, and the Flames were in and out of the PO picture and just not getting their act together, and were 18-16-4 on Dec. 29. The only big run was a 7 game streak from Dec. 31-Jan. 14 that put them into the hunt at 25-16-4 as of Jan. 14 (they are 23-17-5 right now). Then they just collapsed.

If it does, what can they do to avoid the same finish? Or should they embrace and enhance the collapse (but this time have a draft pick to show for it)?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I just don't see it. If the Flames miss out on an additional second- or third-round pick, this on its own is not going to bury them. As I mentioned above, I think there will be a number of significant changes this off-season, and relative to these the return for Hamonic or Brodie at the TD is going to be fairly insignificant.

Brodie and Hamonic should get better returns than a 2nd round pick. They can probably each get a 2nd with Brodie maybe a 1st. They should also get a prospect or additional pick. With Valimaki probably coming back this team is 9 deep and can afford to move one of those D for much needed assets.