another legal situation - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

DementedReality · 09-20-2007, 08:39 PM

ok here is the story.

i was grocery shopping with my son and on return to my vehicle, the person in the car next to it (passenger side) gets out and says I have dinged his door.

i respond saying no i didnt, i got out the driver side not the passenger side. (i suppose my son might have, but i didnt witness that.)

i go and look and it seems quite minor, but noticeable. I tell him to get a quote and call me, give him my # and leave. i told him this, not admitting guilt, but because I didnt want to have a confrontation with him and thought this would put him off.

so the guy calls me back a few days later and says it will be $600.00 (

), a little taken aback, i tell him i need to see the quote before I will agree to that. of course, he doesnt have a written quote just a verbal estimate. at that point i tell him there is no chance i am paying him a cent without written estimates. of course he doesnt like it, tells me he is calling his insurance company etc and i let him know he can do whatever he wants. he wants my insurance info and i tell him not a chance i am giving my private information out.

skip ahead a week or so and his insurance company calls me. i proceed to tell them that i didnt witness this incident and that when you put it all together it seems fishy now. some guy claims i dinged his door but wont give me an estimate? how do i know this isnt a scam? insurance tells me they will look into it further.

so today i get a call from the police. he has filed a police report (i suppose this is neccesary for the insurance company) and I get a letter from his insurance company telling me i need to give them my insurance info or they will send the lawyers after me for the damages.

ok .... so what are my options here?

how do i know its not a scam on his part to begin with? why should i be forced to admit fault when there are no witnesses?

would anyone else here agree to pay a guy $600 for damage that they never saw happen and he has no written estimate for, never mind give out personal information over the phone to a stranger?

any legal beagals to share their advice?

GreenTeaFrapp · 09-20-2007, 08:57 PM

I'd wonder how he knew that it was your door that dinged his car and not the car that was parked there before you.

If he witnessed the event then he would have confronted you when it happened.

If he was parked in the spot before you arrived, how can he know that your car was the only car that could have done it?

If you were there before him, how could you have dinged his car if he hadn't arrived yet?

Check your passenger door and to see if there are any marks on the edge of it. Chances are if you marked his car, it marked your door at the same time.

corporatejay · 09-20-2007, 08:58 PM

I"m not a lawyer yet.

When you are insured you basically gives your insurance company the right to act in your defense whenever there is a claim against you.

the reason they want your insurance information is because they are going to contact your insurance and basically work out a settlement rather than going to court.

it is in your best interest to do this because the insurance company agrees to defend you, therefore legal costs are not your concern. The reason they filed a police report is because if it is fraudulent that is a criminal offence and gives more clout to the guy alleging the incident's story.

DementedReality · 09-20-2007, 09:04 PM

thanks ....

there is a small mark on my door and i thought at the time this is probably reasonable to suggest it was my car that did it.

however, i got fish smells when he wouldnt give me a written estimate. and again, i didnt see it and all he claims is that because there is a mark on my door, it must have been me.

could a scammer not make the mark on my door and then use that as evidence?

anyhow, i will contact my insurance company. does anyone know if this is a no fault claim or an automatic 50% or will i be responsible for 100% even though there are no witnesses?

HOOT · 09-20-2007, 09:08 PM

I would want some type of proof from him or the insurance company on this claim.

I had something like this happen to me where I was hit head on by another vehicle and the insurance company was going to make it a 50/50 fault because the other driver was trying to blame it on me and they had no proof either way...well long story short he didn't realize I had actually taken out my video camera (never have it in the truck but just happened to) and filmed where the cars were, showing I had no room to get out of the way and it was actually him who was about 6 feet in my lane.

urban1 · 09-20-2007, 09:53 PM

Did you try see if the ding lined up with the edge of your door?

The ding could have been new. And the guy could have thought you did it. Was he parked when you got there? It could have been the car in your spot before you.

In a way, you giving your phone number to the guy seems like an admission of guilt. (Which at the time you seemed willing to admit guilt and settle for a small and reasonable amount.) I guess you could say that the guy asked for your phone number and not your insurance info so you gave it to him because you didnt know what to do in the situation but you didnt believe your car dinged his.

Keep us posted. Im surprised this is even something insurance can go after. What if you never came out? If he just wrote down your license plate and called insurance would they pursue this? Ive never heard of door dings going thru insurance. Would they even try to matchup the door dings? You cant get the exact parking surfaces replicated but you could at least tell if it is way off... ie. a ding from a low riding ricer or a SUV.

Shawnski · 09-20-2007, 10:20 PM

Yes Urban, those are the questions I had too. Demented could have walked away if the dings didn't line up. Surprised to see that wasn't even attempted at the time of event (or just not admitted here.)

Common sense would have been to check that right away, considering the circumstances.

jonesy · 09-20-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DementedReality

ok here is the story.

....(i suppose my son might have, but i didnt witness that.)

..... why should i be forced to admit fault when there are no witnesses?

Did you ask your son if he did it?

Are you saying you sort of know your son did it but since there is no proof you don't want to admit it?

I'm not saying that is the case, just asking

HOOT · 09-20-2007, 10:40 PM

Also having many custom vehicles there is NO WAY that a door ding would cost $600 bucks to get repainted. My last truck cost me $8000 to get painted because of the type of paint and when I had to get the door repainted (because some punk keyed it) it only cost me about $350 bucks. Now if this is a stock paint job then there is just no way.

All they would have to do is repaint the one panel, and if that costs $600 I want to know what kind of paint they are using, is his car made of gold?

DementedReality · 09-20-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Yes Urban, those are the questions I had too. Demented could have walked away if the dings didn't line up. Surprised to see that wasn't even attempted at the time of event (or just not admitted here.)

Common sense would have been to check that right away, considering the circumstances.

yes they lined up.... but that doesnt stop it from being a set up. hwo do i know he didnt get a ding elsewhere and decided to set up me up by scratching my side of the car so he could claim it on someone else's insurance (instead of his)?

the part that really smelt bad to me was a small scratch is $600 to fix, but no willingness to provide the estimate in writing?

what reasonable person would fork over money in this circumstance?

DementedReality · 09-20-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesy

Did you ask your son if he did it?

Are you saying you sort of know your son did it but since there is no proof you don't want to admit it?

I'm not saying that is the case, just asking

my son said he didnt remember. however he is quite young and as young boys go they cant even remember why they went upstairs to get their socks.

at the moment, i thought ok this guy says our marks line up, they seemed to and i didnt want a scene in the parking lot so i gave him my phone #.

if he called me and said it cost $100, I would have just sucked it up. however my radar went up when the amount was so high for a little scratch, but no written proof.

id like to know if there is anyone who would have said "ok" come get your money?

Shawnski · 09-20-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DementedReality

yes they lined up.... but that doesnt stop it from being a set up. hwo do i know he didnt get a ding elsewhere and decided to set up me up by scratching my side of the car so he could claim it on someone else's insurance?

the part that really smelt bad to me was a small scratch is $600 to fix, but no willingness to provide the estimate in writing?

what reasonable person would fork over money in this circumstance?

And your handle has "Reality" in it... right.

CP isn't a "how to get out of responsibility" forum.

HOOT · 09-20-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

And your handle has "Reality" in it... right.

CP isn't a "how to get out of responsibility" forum.

I think he just wanted advice on how some of us would handle the situation, from what I can tell he is not trying to "get out of it" he is just wondering if the situaton seems "fishy".

If you dinged someones car and they asked you for $600 would you give it to them or would you want a written estimate?

ken0042 · 09-20-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DementedReality

id like to know if there is anyone who would have said "ok" come get your money?

Well, no. Obviously not. But this issue isn't black and white either.

As you said, you do not know if your son did it or not. Any of that gets back to the other party, and is his word vs. your "nobody knows for sure here."

What did you say in your answer on the police report?

I would send him and his insurance company a registered letter. In it you have to decide; you will pay to fix it, or you deny responsibility. But if you deny it, be prepared to back it up in small claims court.

DementedReality · 09-20-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

And your handle has "Reality" in it... right.

CP isn't a "how to get out of responsibility" forum.

was that neccesary?

DementedReality · 09-20-2007, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

Well, no. Obviously not. But this issue isn't black and white either.

As you said, you do not know if your son did it or not. Any of that gets back to the other party, and is his word vs. your "nobody knows for sure here."

What did you say in your answer on the police report?

I would send him and his insurance company a registered letter. In it you have to decide; you will pay to fix it, or you deny responsibility. But if you deny it, be prepared to back it up in small claims court.

fair enough, but isnt the onus on him to prove I did it and not the other way around?

HOOT · 09-20-2007, 11:08 PM

Do you know what kind of car it is he owns? Year, Make, Model & Color?

I would phone around to a few paint shops if you do and ask what something like this would "roughly" cost. If he is not even close in his estimate then I would deny the claim and if he takes you to small claims court tell the judge how much he lied to you. IMO his credability should be shot...

Shawnski · 09-20-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DementedReality

was that neccesary?

Yes, yes it was. Welcome to reality.

Shawnski · 09-20-2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

If you dinged someones car and they asked you for $600 would you give it to them or would you want a written estimate?

If my son dinged someones car, which apparently is obvious now, I would ensure the other party is satisfied, either by fixing it (get quotes from a few sources) or negotiate on the spot for a value (hey, sorry, here is a couple hundred cash for your trouble.) Hell, that latter one usually results in the people saying "shyte happens". This thread would never have occurred had the situation been addressed right away. THAT is MY perspective.

ken0042 · 09-20-2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DementedReality

fair enough, but isnt the onus on him to prove I did it and not the other way around?

It is, but all it takes is a camera phone, admission from your son that he went out that door, and that he "isn't sure" that he did it.

Sorry; I'm not trying to come off as harsh, but from just hearing your side of the story; I'm inclined to believe that your son may have banged up his car. At the bottom line is he has the right to have it repaired anywhere he wants. So if he wants to get his '79 chevette fixed at the Mercedes dealership; he is allowed. (I once had a neighbour hit my car, and then get mad when I wanted to get my Grand Am fixed at a GM dealer.)