Stop SPP Protest - Union Leader stops provocateurs

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't buy the whole they're cops theory, I agree with Cowperson's assesment that they're members of professional protest groups that have sprung up at various protests around the world.

I don't have much trust in the protestors because way to often these things explode into violence when some idiot picks up a rock or a stick and charges the police.

We've seen multiple prostests this year where the police haven't had to intervene, and I doubt that the police of the government want to incite a riot where citizen's get tear gassed or shot or water hosed when the world is watching, its hardly the desired result that the Canadian government would want in the face of the over active scrutiny of the media.

But its far better to believe the head protestor I guess.

Hey look, its Elvis, gotta go.

I'm not believing the protester, I'm believing my own eyes. If those guys were real anarchist-radical types I'll eat my hat.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it's a police force or some police officers trying to justify their own existence and the ridiculous lengths and absurd amount of money the spend on "security". I certainly don't think "The Government" is behind this.

Hey look, it's Darryl Gates. Gotta go

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm not believing the protester, I'm believing my own eyes. If those guys were real anarchist-radical types I'll eat my hat.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it's a police force or some police officers trying to justify their own existence and the ridiculous lengths and absurd amount of money the spend on "security". I certainly don't think "The Government" is behind this.

Hey look, it's Darryl Gates. Gotta go

We'll have to disagree, I didn't see anything that shouted Cop to me.

And I don't buy that the police would do something that stupid, one of them was unmasked to the camera.

This to me is the same as the junior soccer team that bitched about police brutality when they started the assault.

but I guess its easy to believe that the law enforcement is some evil faceless entity bent on bending the constitution, when it benefits them.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We'll have to disagree, I didn't see anything that shouted Cop to me.

And I don't buy that the police would do something that stupid, one of them was unmasked to the camera.

This to me is the same as the junior soccer team that bitched about police brutality when they started the assault.

Did you see any sort of behaviour there that looked like the actions of a violent anarchist? If so, what was it?

Was it the one "anarchist" with the weapon in his hand and the mask on his face whispering into the ear of the cop in the riot gear, or the other "anarchist" with the mask on his face using his hand to move the shield of the police officer so they could finish their conversation.

But fine, if you don't believe it then whatever. I won't change your mind. But tell me, does that video raise even the slightest bit of suspicion in you? Is there a hint of "maybe this ain't quite what they say it is"? Anything?

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

but I guess its easy to believe that the law enforcement is some evil faceless entity bent on bending the constitution, when it benefits them.

Is it easier to believe that a few cops in some hick Quebec town could pull a stupid stunt where they might get to crack some skulls and get on the news?

And who (besides you) said anything about law enforcement as some evil faceless entity?

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't buy the whole they're cops theory, I agree with Cowperson's assesment that they're members of professional protest groups that have sprung up at various protests around the world.

I don't have much trust in the protestors because way to often these things explode into violence when some idiot picks up a rock or a stick and charges the police.

We've seen multiple prostests this year where the police haven't had to intervene, and I doubt that the police of the government want to incite a riot where citizen's get tear gassed or shot or water hosed when the world is watching, its hardly the desired result that the Canadian government would want in the face of the over active scrutiny of the media.

But its far better to believe the head protestor I guess.

Hey look, its Elvis, gotta go.

I would have to agree with your assessment completely. I didn't see anything in this video that would convince me that these guys were cops. All I saw were some wild accusations by a protestor.

[kremb]

[FireFly]

I think the conspiracy theorists are thinking too hard on this one. I bet anyone could walk into a Work Warehouse and pick up a pair of those.

They look like a bunch of kids looking for trouble. If you look at them, they don't really look that old, and I think they were trying to leave, and that's what he was talking to the police about. However, their faces were covered, so it's really a commentary on the way it seemed to me they were behaving. Like boys who wanted to play and got in too deep. You know how kids in particular would get an idea in their head... probably a bunch of boys got together and thought it would be funny to start a fight at the protest... turn it into a riot.

But that's just an impression I get from the video.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I think the conspiracy theorists are thinking too hard on this one. I bet anyone could walk into a Work Warehouse and pick up a pair of those.

They look like a bunch of kids looking for trouble. If you look at them, they don't really look that old, and I think they were trying to leave, and that's what he was talking to the police about. However, their faces were covered, so it's really a commentary on the way it seemed to me they were behaving. Like boys who wanted to play and got in too deep. You know how kids in particular would get an idea in their head... probably a bunch of boys got together and thought it would be funny to start a fight at the protest... turn it into a riot.

But that's just an impression I get from the video.

Not kids in my book. More like young men about police recruitment age. Anarchists wouldn't be thrown off by some old man, they'd just laugh and carry on with their plans or even jump the old guy. Young cops wouldn't handle it so easy. They'd know they were playing a game and deception wouldn't come natural to them yet. So they acted as they did, looking for protection amongst their own when they failed.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Maintaining social control and the protection of private property.

Maintaining social control = enforcing the rule of law
Protection of private property = upholding laws against theft, trespassing and other offences against your RIGHT to own property

These are bad things? I think not.

A functioning modern society without police is impossible. Police must also be subject to the law, however - and in this case, it looks suspiciously like these police were going outside the law (or, at least, trying to). An independent investigation should be ordered by the government, and then we will know - if the three actually WERE arrested, then their names are on file, and they can be questioned. If the arrests are just a convenient fiction, then it is clearly a cover-up of some sort; either way the circumstances are such that the accusation must be taken seriously.

The idea that the police would never ever mount such an operation is laughable. Certainly the anarchists and anti-global people have tried in the past to incite riots; never would they run to the police for protection. It might just be 3 yahoos who wanted to stir up trouble, but I'd say the chances it was organized by anarchists is minuscule in relation to the chance it was organized by over-zealous police officers.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by jammies

Maintaining social control = enforcing the rule of law
Protection of private property = upholding laws against theft, trespassing and other offences against your RIGHT to own property

These are bad things? I think not.

I agree with everything else you've said but the police have been known to use their powers to enforce property rights over human rights.
This could be another example as the powers that be sit around the table deciding how to divvy up the spoils at the expense of our freedom and middle class life style. At least that's what the protesters believe and the cops, pulling these stunts, seem to back up their feelings.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by kremb

That's hilarious! They should have worn hemp shoes or something if they really wanted to blend in...

[RubberDuck]

I think the conspiracy theorists are thinking too hard on this one. I bet anyone could walk into a Work Warehouse and pick up a pair of those.

They look like a bunch of kids looking for trouble.

How many times have you gone shopping with your friends and all of you bought the exact same pair of boots. How often do you see a group of kids all wearing the exact same shoes?

Never.

[Burninator]

Yeah this doesn't make a lot of sense. I find it very hard to believe that police would let someone holding a good size rock stand right beside them like that. Even on the street I don't think a regular police officer would someone do that, let alone people who look like they would start trouble in the middle of a protest. Plus add in the other factors of the boots being the exact same, and the protest largely consisting of people over the age of 40. The whole doesn't really add up. I wouldn't totally dismiss the claim that those guys were police.

[Cowperson]

I'm a skeptic of the protesters claims, mostly because we've heard all that before in cities across the world and its starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf.

Until they produce these guys or their names, which they surely jotted down, however, the public has a right to question what happened and a right to know the answer.

On the other hand, I think I've got two pairs of boots like those myself, shoved on me by my brother-in-law who had 12 pairs in his own garage, him being out of the military only a few years ago. And you can definitely buy stuff like that on-line.

Would three guys buy three pairs of boots like that at the same time? They would if they're newly arrived in town determined to be poop-disturbers and needed something in steel-toed chic.

Still, the cops can help themselves, if they can, by speaking up. If they don't, they're just helping those who routinely throw these things out in every city where we see a riot around the globe.

Cowperson

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I'm a skeptic of the protesters claims, mostly because we've heard all that before in cities across the world and its starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf.



Cowperson

No, It's starting to sound and LOOK like there is evidence that wolves were on the scene.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I'm a skeptic of the protesters claims, mostly because we've heard all that before in cities across the world and its starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf.

Is this really sound reasoning? Because we hear about this kind of stuff all the time, it's clearly not occurring?

[kremb]

Figured this is worth bumping.

Found this interesting article about the protests in Calgary a few years back, also commenting on the recent events.

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/hom.../23/01717.html

[gottabekd]

Okay, I just glanced this thread, but has everyone seen this?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/...o.html?ref=rss

Quebec provincial police admitted Thursday that their officers disguised themselves as demonstrators during the protest at the North American leaders summit in Montebello, Que.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

Okay, I just glanced this thread, but has everyone seen this?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/...o.html?ref=rss

"At all times, they responded within their mandate to keep order and security."

Just as I suspected. Standard issue boots, standard issue Security Rock.

Goddamn conspiracy theories.

[Byrns]

Case closed. Someone doesn't need to eat their hat.

[kremb]

I wonder if someone has some video of these cops acting as provocateurs now?

I saw the one cop in the line had a video camera pointing in the direction of the protestors. I wonder how long they had been rolling the tape?