Edmonton is No Good XII: "I Dunno.. it's Just Not Good."

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Oh shoot, I thought he was a defenseman. Not sure why I thought that. I stand by the rest of it.

I agree with the rest of it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

How about playoffs - The most important part of the season

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seas...off-stats.html

His P/60 is historic.

If you think this stat is conclusive, so you think Leon Draisaitl is therefore the second-best player in the game? Rantanen is 3rd? Tkachuk is 4th? Marchand is 5th?

BTW, if it's only the last 2 seasons, Draisaitl has better PP/60 and Sam Bennett is 4th.

Longer? Draisaitl is ahead over the last 10 seasons.

ES PP/60 makes Anton Lundell the second best player in the game on your chart.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Oh shoot, I thought he was a defenseman. Not sure why I thought that. I stand by the rest of it.

You probably mixed him up with Lowe.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If you think this stat is conclusive, so you think Leon Draisaitl is therefore the second-best player in the game? Rantanen is 3rd? Tkachuk is 4th? Marchand is 5th?

BTW, if it's only the last 2 seasons, Draisaitl has better PP/60 and Sam Bennett is 4th.

Longer? Draisaitl is ahead over the last 10 seasons.

ES PP/60 makes Anton Lundell the second best player in the game on your chart.

More importantly, these numbers are all inflated because these guys are all in their primes - the numbers will wane, as they age (just like everyone else who has come before them)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

More importantly, these numbers are all inflated because these guys are all in their primes - the numbers will wane, as they age (just like everyone else who has come before them)

Oh, I'm kind of OK with using a short time frame since "best player in the game" is a snapshot of right now. So, it's fair if they are in their prime right now when we are throwing that label around. Like Iginla was the best player, but only for a year or so between the decline of Mario etc. and the establishment of Crosby.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If you think this stat is conclusive, so you think Leon Draisaitl is therefore the second-best player in the game? Rantanen is 3rd? Tkachuk is 4th? Marchand is 5th?

BTW, if it's only the last 2 seasons, Draisaitl has better PP/60 and Sam Bennett is 4th.

Longer? Draisaitl is ahead over the last 10 seasons.

ES PP/60 makes Anton Lundell the second best player in the game on your chart.

So PP/60 Is conclusive in the regular season but not in the playoffs ? Gotcha . Especially when the sample size is from a guy who went to the finals twice in a row .

You asked for a stat and used PP/60 in the regular season as an example of one he didn’t lead … remember

You also said 3 years so used that timeframe . Literally what you asked for- show a stat over 3 years he leads in .

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, I'm kind of OK with using a short time frame since "best player in the game" is a snapshot of right now. So, it's fair if they are in their prime right now when we are throwing that label around. Like Iginla was the best player, but only for a year or so between the decline of Mario etc. and the establishment of Crosby.

Yes, but Jason14H was arguing that his numbers were 'historic', which is a comparison against the all-time greats. But you can't use PPG or PP/60 of in-their-prime players against the career numbers of past players. Well you can, it's just misleading.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

More importantly, these numbers are all inflated because these guys are all in their primes - the numbers will wane, as they age (just like everyone else who has come before them)

The question is best player in the game TODAY (or at least last few
Years depending how you interpret the talking head says best in the game ) not career

They also aren’t inflated. Mcdavids last 2 playoff runs are historic no matter how you look at them

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, but Jason14H was arguing that his numbers were 'historic', which is a comparison against the all-time greats. But you can't use PPG or PP/60 of in-their-prime players against the career numbers of past players. Well you can, it's just misleading.

They are historic. Find another 3 year span with a better P/60

[3thirty]

Originally Posted by Bubba17

I am and did see Orr from 69 until he finished.

[flamingred89]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

24/25 - Lost 1st round
23/24 - Lost 2nd round
22/23 - Lost 1st round
21/22 - Won Cup
20/21 - Lost in 2nd round
19/20 - Lost in 2nd round (Covid so technically they won the seeding round and lost first series)
18/19 - Lost in 2nd round

For comparison, the Oilers results since Mcavi entered the league.

15/16 - Missed the Playoffs
16/17 - 2nd Round
17/18 - Missed the Playoffs
18/19 - Missed the Playoffs
19/20 - Lost in the seeding round to the 12th place Blackhawks lol
20/21 - Canadian division. Swept by the Jets in the first round lol
21/22 - 3rd round. Swept by Colorado
22/23 - 2nd round. Lost in 5 to Vegas
23/24 - Cup Final
24/25 - Cup Final

So that's pretty much missing the playoffs 6 of the first 7 years of his career and then came some playoff success.

It will always sound like sour grapes coming from a Flames fan but I still think the Oilers 2 cup runs were Cinderella seasons. Both years they were putrid the first quarter of the season and relied on a coaching change and/or soft schedules to get back into it. They've never really had a dominant regular season. Hence why they haven't won the division in 40 years. The first cup run they were lucky to get by a depleted Vancouver team and then had that fluke PK streak where they didnt let up a pp goal over their last 3 series.

The 2nd cup run they got by a Kings team that dominated them and should've won all 6 games if it wasn't for the Kings completely choking it away. The Byfield mishap, the terrible goal challenge that resulted in a 2 goal swing after the PP, and just some crazy luck. Then they got by a disinterested Vegas team before beating the Stars, who again were the better team they just couldn't stop the Oilers PP. And then the Oilers got dismantled by the Panthers, which much like the Kings series could've been a 6 game sweep if it wasn't for the usual Oilers BS.

And now here we are with the Oilers being pretty terrible despite the easiest division the NHL may ever see. And the Avalanche are the cream of the crop.

[dino7c]

We are not talking good or even great we are talking the best...you are not the best unless you score the goals/points in the games that win your team the championship. Destroying the Pacific division in the first 2 rounds doesnt make you the best.

[D as in David]

The Flames are on a historic 3-game winning streak. Find another 3-game span that is better.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Mario was amazing, not taking away from that. Just the sheer force of McDavid, his skills to me are unmatched historically.

Where Mario had the incredible handles, McDavid can do that at speeds we've never seen before.

Lol. You can't be serious? You sound like if Trump was an Oilers fan. He can do things better than anyone, at speeds we've never seen before.

[Mathgod]

When did this stop being the Edmonton is no good thread and become the praise McDavid thread?

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

When did this stop being the Edmonton is no good thread and become the praise McDavid thread?

When Howard the Duck posted his massively glowing review of a No Good Player on a No Good Team from a No Good City.


How anyone can argue that a one-dimensional player - albeit a fast one - is the "best" is far beyond my level of delusion.

[musth]

McAvi is the fastest pure goalscorer in the league and that's about it.

[dirk diggler]

its funny how people say he is the best player in the world as if it cant be argued, back when Gretzky won scoring titles, he won by so many point it was laughable. McDavid is extremely skilled but if he wins the scoring title, it will be be a few points. Not exactly head and shoulders above the other elite players. Impressive but not Gretzky/Lemieux like

[flamingred89]

Whenever scoring comes into the equation I always think of Lemieux's '96 season. He scored 69 goals and had 161 points in 70(!) games at the beginning of the dead puck era. Which I think is the single best offensive season in NHL history. And I don't even think it's up for debate when factoring era's. Just insane stuff. And this was after having retired for the first time because of back issues.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

So PP/60 Is conclusive in the regular season but not in the playoffs ? Gotcha . Especially when the sample size is from a guy who went to the finals twice in a row .

You asked for a stat and used PP/60 in the regular season as an example of one he didn’t lead … remember

You also said 3 years so used that timeframe . Literally what you asked for- show a stat over 3 years he leads in .

Who said regular season PP/60 was conclusive?

I’m saying there’s no real argument based on stats. I suppose you’ve shown if you search and find one stat among many that you could try. But again, if that stat is meaningful, would you then conclude that Draisaitl is the second best player in the world?

BTW, all time, McDavid is not the PP/60 leader. Or PPG. He is first in even strength points per 60, a fraction ahead of …. Jake Guentzel.