Edmonton is No Good XII: "I Dunno.. it's Just Not Good."

[McG]

To me, most valuable or impactful for your team is not “greatest player on earth”. It’s most impactful for team.

There’s no doubt Mavi carries the Oilers. And the eye test as an attacker is definitely impressive, but the floating, the defensive lapses, and the lack of leadership all count against him.

Also he’s with oilers so no good.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A poll is in order: Who is the best hockey player in the world? McDavid, Barkov, Mackinnon and Makar are probably the present candidates. I doubt you'd say Celebrini quite yet. One some past occasions you might have thrown a goalie in but not right now, I think.

I do find it kind of funny people use McDavid's inability to win a cup against him being the best player, but at the same time have Mackinnon and Makar in the running for best player because of 1 playoff run if we use the same logic

If we are to believe (and I actually have no issue with the argument) that these 2 players are in the top 4 for best in NHL, shouldn't they be doing more in the playoffs?

Since Makar joined they have vastly underperformed in the playoffs outside 1 run - And had Rantanen and have had top to bottom more complete teams then the Oilers IMO

24/25 - Lost 1st round
23/24 - Lost 2nd round
22/23 - Lost 1st round
21/22 - Won Cup
20/21 - Lost in 2nd round
19/20 - Lost in 2nd round (Covid so technically they won the seeding round and lost first series)
18/19 - Lost in 2nd round

I find it hard to say McDavid isn't the best because they lost in G7 vs McKinnon and Makar who have had better teams, less overall success, had each other, but won 1 cup sandwitched between 6 disappointing postseasons.

Barkov probably has the best argument as the challenger to McDavid

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Sorry, my fault for just reading the last page, and not seeing any context. Are we saying if we had to take whichever player currently in the NHL and their at this point skill level for one year? I'd still take McDavid or Draisaitl over anyone if we're talking playoffs and their game breaking ability.

I’m taking Cooley

[Rtown]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Mario was amazing, not taking away from that. Just the sheer force of McDavid, his skills to me are unmatched historically.

Where Mario had the incredible handles, McDavid can do that at speeds we've never seen before.

I get what you’re saying but I think we need to consider that no player has ever received the favourable officiating and campaigning like we’re seeing now. Maybe my old memory is failing me but I thought that Bure was pretty damn fast. Imagine what he would accomplish in today’s game with the “right of way” and not the hooking and holding they had to fight through back then.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I do find it kind of funny people use McDavid's inability to win a cup against him being the best player, but at the same time have Mackinnon and Makar in the running for best player because of 1 playoff run if we use the same logic

If we are to believe (and I actually have no issue with the argument) that these 2 players are in the top 4 for best in NHL, shouldn't they be doing more in the playoffs?

Since Makar joined they have vastly underperformed in the playoffs outside 1 run - And had Rantanen and have had top to bottom more complete teams then the Oilers IMO

24/25 - Lost 1st round
23/24 - Lost 2nd round
22/23 - Lost 1st round
21/22 - Won Cup
20/21 - Lost in 2nd round
19/20 - Lost in 2nd round (Covid so technically they won the seeding round and lost first series)
18/19 - Lost in 2nd round

I find it hard to say McDavid isn't the best because they lost in G7 vs McKinnon and Makar who have had better teams, less overall success, had each other, but won 1 cup sandwitched between 6 disappointing postseasons.

Barkov probably has the best argument as the challenger to McDavid

If the Oilers were in the central like the Avs they dont have those 2 cup runs IMO. Also winning even one cup is a massive advantage. You are never gonna be in the best of all time convos without actually winning.

[Bubba17]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I assume you never saw Mario Lemieux play. I don't think McDavid is even in the same sentence as Super Mario.

Yep, and Orr was also better and more impactful in the games.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Theres no way mcdavid is at or near Mario's level.

Maybe in the next tier.

He would've out produced Gretzky if he wasn't sidelined with various ailments.

Probably the GOAT.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Bubba17

Yep, and Orr was also better and more impactful in the games.

Well unless your in your early 60's you didn't see Orr and remember his play

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

That's crazy. Look, I hate the Oilers with a passion, but given one player to start an organization with, other than Crosby, there is no player I take over McDavid.

You're right. Crosby is another player I'd take over McDavid. There are other measures as well. No one has left Colorado, or Pittsburgh and thrown the organization under the bus like recent players in Edmonton (Stetcher, Mangiapane). That's also telling.

Originally Posted by kevman

He's 39th in 5 on 5 points per 60 at 2.36 points/60. Kucherov is 1st at 4.12.

Kucherov almost produces double what McDavid does when it's 5 on 5.
link - for players that have played at least 300 minutes

McDavid moves up to 11th in points/60 in all even strengths situations with 3.06 points/60. Kucherov is still 1st at 4.85. So adding 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 hockey brings McDavid close to the top 10 point producers at even strength in the league.

Finally, and just for fun, McDavid moves into 3rd in points/60 in all situations with 4.25 points/60. Kucherov is 1st at 5.4 points/60. Even with McDavid PP points, Kucherov still scores more than a point/60 more than McDavid.

That's weird. I could have swore I found the same stats awhile back. When I looked up even strength points per 60, some websites were showing McDavid was the leader. It also shows McDavid as the leader among active players for even strength points per 60...

Then I look at your link and it's not the case. Am I missing something?

[Bubba17]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well unless your in your early 60's you didn't see Orr and remember his play

I am and did see Orr from 69 until he finished.

[dwd5150]

EDMONTON JOURNAL
'They're not NHL championship caliber players': Legendary Oiler with hard truth about Edmonton's skill level.
David Staples March 24, 2026

https://t.co/nSj17vcH51

[Bingo]

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...ches-knoblauch

Connor McDavid didn’t walk back Saturday’s comments about the Edmonton Oilers coaching staff — mostly because he didn’t have to.

Article content
The reality is that he didn’t say anything negative about the Oilers coaching staff at all.

Damage control continues

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I do find it kind of funny people use McDavid's inability to win a cup against him being the best player, but at the same time have Mackinnon and Makar in the running for best player because of 1 playoff run if we use the same logic

Well, no, that's not their argument. It's a rebuttal to the argument that McDavid is the best because he got his team to the finals twice.

My argument that started this discussion is that saying he's the best is not supported by facts. Why? Because there's no stat - over this year or over the past, say, three years - to support it. Not points, not PPG, not PP/60, not PP/60 even strength, not PP/60 powerplay.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dwd5150

EDMONTON JOURNAL
'They're not NHL championship caliber players': Legendary Oiler with hard truth about Edmonton's skill level.
David Staples March 24, 2026

https://t.co/nSj17vcH51

Despite MacT being an #######, I will give it to him that he was a good defenseman for the time and heck, maybe even a good coach. But legendary? That is setting the bar really low for what legendary means.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, no, that's not their argument. It's a rebuttal to the argument that McDavid is the best because he got his team to the finals twice.

My argument that started this discussion is that saying he's the best is not supported by facts. Why? Because there's no stat - over this year or over the past, say, three years - to support it. Not points, not PPG, not PP/60, not PP/60 even strength, not PP/60 powerplay.

How about playoffs - The most important part of the season

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seas...off-stats.html

His P/60 is historic.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...ches-knoblauch



Damage control continues

Holy smokes. That's pretty well every Oilers journalist with a "McDavid criticism of coach is fake news" article despite the fact that the tape exists and his intent pretty clear in the heat of the moment. All that's missing is the MEGA shirts for Oilers media and fans but the reality is that Edmonton was never great in the first place.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

How about playoffs - The most important part of the season

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seas...off-stats.html

His P/60 is historic.

And the fact that Bouchard and Draisatl are anywhere on that list is a total testament to McDavid.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Despite MacT being an #######, I will give it to him that he was a good defenseman for the time and heck, maybe even a good coach.

MacTavish? He was a centre. He got the leftover minutes after Gretzky and Messier took the lion's share. Which meant that he got most of the PK duty, since the big stars didn't want it, and that probably helped develop his hockey sense to the point where he could take up coaching later in life.

A legend? Sure, maybe, if there's a Hall of Fame for vehicular homicide.

[jaikorven]

A team that makes its living on the PP is all that is telling us, imo. Doesn't say anything about McDingleberry being the GOAT.

Not to mention the PPs those guys get is at an all time high these days.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

MacTavish? He was a centre. He got the leftover minutes after Gretzky and Messier took the lion's share. Which meant that he got most of the PK duty, since the big stars didn't want it, and that probably helped develop his hockey sense to the point where he could take up coaching later in life.

A legend? Sure, maybe, if there's a Hall of Fame for vehicular homicide.

Oh shoot, I thought he was a defenseman. Not sure why I thought that. I stand by the rest of it.