Air Canada express crash at La Guardia

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

Just a thought, I think it is important that everyone keeps their head on straight. Stop for a second and slow down. Saying that the “entire ATC system is broken” is no different than these politicians deeming something “broken” and then demolishing it to the ground. The problem is not the ATC system, it is a well well functioning system of managed and staffed correctly. It seems like that may not be the case but time will tell.

Really? because that's not what I've been reading for years.

Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/over-90...rs-data-shows/


I think it's OK to call out things that are widely recognized as being #####e.

[btimbit]

I'm a pilot in the Carribean, flying into the states is always a mess. Yes, their systems broken. Two fatal incidents since the start of 2025, both avoidable. It's not just staffing, procedures are failing as well.

Edit: And I'm pretty sure Acey used to work with my brother, if he's who I think he is, he knows what he's talking about on this subject as well. (As most of you already know)

[blankall]

For several years, whenever I fly into an airport in the New York/New Jersey area, the whole thing seems to be a mess. The staff are angry and standoffish. Everyone there seems to hate their job and be doing the bare minimum. Very different experience than most other US airlines, where there's a significant degree of US friendliness/hospitality.

I actively avoid flying into Newark or any NYC airport. Especially, when there's a potential complicating factor like a holiday or weather. They all just seem on the verge of collapse.

Very sad to hear about this crash. Quite frankly, this could have been a whole lot worse too. Only two deaths is a bit of a miracle.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

There are fingers to be pointed, but it has nothing to do with the guy on the radio. It's not like these are not solvable issues. Train more people. Pay more if you need to, as the market demands. Maybe if it is a less ####ty stressful job more people would do it for longer.

FWIW, both the FAA and also Canada have a mandatory retirement age of 56 for ATC controllers, mainly due to the stress levels. Europe is generally 60.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

FWIW, both the FAA and also Canada have a mandatory retirement age of 56 for ATC controllers, mainly due to the stress levels. Europe is generally 60.

See page 16 here though, many retire early.

History shows that not all controllers retire when they first become eligible. Recent data shows that 24 percent of controllers who first became eligible actually retired that year. The FAA observed that many controllers delay retirement until they get closer to the mandatory retirement age of 56. Because most controllers are retirement eligible at the age of 50, they typically reach mandatory retirement age in their seventh year of eligibility.
These trends are seen in Figure 3.4 below, which shows that fewer than half of retirements occur in the first 3 years of eligibility. Despite the increased likelihood of delayed retirement, the majority of controllers still leave the controller workforce prior to reaching the mandatory age.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...-workforce.pdf

[para transit fellow]

yikes! there CCTV footage of the collision

https://x.com/Turbinetraveler/status...904098798?s=20

[Johnny Makarov]

The plane hit it at 104mph or 167kmph. ugh.

[btimbit]

#### that's hard to watch

[speede5]

Those trucks are big and heavy, full of water. We have a couple on base here and to see it thrown like that is crazy.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

yikes! there CCTV footage of the collision

https://x.com/Turbinetraveler/status...904098798?s=20

Looks like the fire truck saw the plane too late and tried to turn down the runway and away from the plane at the last second.

[the-rasta-masta]

Seeing that video you'd think they'd be able to see the plane coming if they just stopped to look. Obviously they had clearance but it was mentioned earlier in the thread that there's policy that they still "look both ways before crossing the street".

[D as in David]

Very fortunate that the fuel tanks weren't ruptured.

[Snuffleupagus]

https://twitter.com/user/status/2036133299907862671

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Seeing that video you'd think they'd be able to see the plane coming if they just stopped to look. Obviously they had clearance but it was mentioned earlier in the thread that there's policy that they still "look both ways before crossing the street".

Yeah, you can see the truck that was next to them stops. Even if cleared you're expected to adhere to the right of way which is always give way to aircraft first and foremost. Probably just focused on their task which was responding to a seperate incident

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

https://twitter.com/user/status/2036133299907862671

Honest question...what did they do? Looks like they just blasted straight into it. Not saying there was anything they could do...just saying it looks like they did nothing other than maintain course.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Honest question...what did they do? Looks like they just blasted straight into it. Not saying there was anything they could do...just saying it looks like they did nothing other than maintain course.

Resisted the raw instinct to do something evasive that could have been more catastrophic, like pulling up and impacting mid-fuselage?

I'd be curious what the training for this situation is.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Honest question...what did they do? Looks like they just blasted straight into it. Not saying there was anything they could do...just saying it looks like they did nothing other than maintain course.

All you can do at that point is max braking and hope for the best. Too slow to take off again, steer into the weeds at those speeds you kill even more people.

They also might not have seen the thing. In those conditions all the wipers do on a plane is smear the water into a slightly easier to see through film. Rain makes the light bend and contract, LGA is always packed too, there's lights everywhere from the ground and other planes, especially flashing lights from a convoy of emergency vehicles.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Resisted the raw instinct to do something evasive that could have been more catastrophic, like pulling up and impacting mid-fuselage?

I'd be curious what the training for this situation is.

How do we know anything about what they did at this point? They'd be going too slow to lift off, probably even pitch up. I suspect they'd probably try to turn instinctively, but I doubt it would have much response at that ground speed in that brief moment in time when they realized the truck wasn't stopping.

[Khel]

I feel for the families of the pilots, and also for the ATC employee, I hope that person is getting all the support they require.

[chummer]

Even with clearance that crash truck driver has to at least slow down and make sure it's safe before entering the runway, sure looks like he didn't do that.