Alberta Politics & Government Thread 4.0

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by DJones

Yes, I wanted a net balance of what people pay vs what they get from the feds. In Canada that naturally follows provinces.

I posted the link above showing those numbers. Numbers are a bit dated and that was during a recession in Alberta so more recent numbers would be even worse if you can find them.

What "people" pay vs. what they get? That's a lot harder to weed out than just revenue - expenditure.


For example, Alberta leads provinces with the largest share of revenue derived from corporate and production taxes compared to household income taxes and taxes on products (sales and excise taxes) at just a hair over a third. The national average is just under 25% with provinces like BC and NB being under 10%. Does this source of revenue get counted as what "people" pay?


Similarly on what we are getting back. How should subsidies fit in? What about aforementioned infrastructure projects like TMX. most of the money got spent in BC, but the benefit is mostly for Alberta. Are we counting the additional royalty revenue that federal investment generates as something we get back?


But since you asked so nicely, these are the 2024 revenue - expenditure numbers per capita


NL - $7,011
PE - $12,364
NS - $10,961
NB - $10,143
QC - $2,962
ON - $895
MB - $7,981
SK - $5,955
AB - ($3,870)
BC – ($1,433)




Just for fun, I tried to account for what 'people' actually pay (household income taxes, sales & excise taxes & social insurance (EI & CPP) minus the net expenditure. People are welcome to audit my numbers and assumptions, I did it quickly to avoid work and might have missed some big lines


NL - $9,363
PE - $14,921
NS - $12,973
NB - $10,754
QC - $5,990
ON - $4,587
MB - $9,022
SK - $9,571
AB - $1,214
BC – ($400)


What does it mean? I don't really know. Does BC just capture corporate tax so horribly? Are Alberta corporations shouldering too much of Alberta's burden? Who knows!

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

It is hilarious that Albertans think that they will save money, as if they wont have to pay to access federal transportation corridors both coming and going. It's not like Canada will just let us use their trains, and port access for free. Let alone highways, or portions of pipeline infrastructure which the federal government helped pay.

It's just a hair brained high school social studies argument to think that the Alberta economy can just be separated and continue to operate the way it was despite how integrated it is.

This is the #1 argument against even discussing separation imo.

Because it's probably objectively true that confederation is fiscally "unfair" to Albertans.

But that actually doesn't matter. You can't choose to move to fantasyland - and the only other option available to Albertans is to separate. And anyone who thinks the rest of Canada wouldn't fill the Alberta-shaped hole in their budgets with levies on Alberta's oil and gas exports has already moved to fantasyland.

You don't get to pick whatever you want, you get to pick from the choices available to you. And clearly separating is worse than the deal we have now, so we should stay.

It doesn't require appeals to emotion or patriotism - Albertans are clearly better off fiscally to stay.

[puffnstuff]

https://albertapolitics.ca/2026/02/o...h-and-the-ucp/

Rakhi Pancholi – the NDP’s deputy leader eviscerates Danielle Smith’s claims

[Fuzz]

Premier Danielle Smith wielded a striking figure earlier this month to make her case for giving her province more say in how the federal government picks upper court judges for Alberta.

“Especially since 80 per cent of the judges or so have been demonstrated to have Liberal party donations, I don’t know why anyone would think that the process we have right now is free of politics,” she told reporters.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ysis-9.7103374

Complete bull####, as you might imagine.

In shocking news, Danielle Trump got this stat from...Post Media's "should have retired 30 years ago" low effort fact swamp Lorne Gunter. You know, the dude I called out a few days ago for bull####. This is basically like Trump getting his info from Fox News and making policy on it. Someone needs to take this dude's press pass away. Disaster!


Thank you for your attention on this matter!

[puffnstuff]

I think I like this line the best

'The single media source Smith got that fact from has since corrected it.'

Such a low-information Premier we have.

[Fuzz]

This country is already the most decentralized federation in the world. One of the things that keep it together is the idea that everyone across the country enjoys the same set of rights, the same legal protections, the same social safety net, and that there is, fundamentally, a desire to work together to pursue a thriving and secure future.


Smith represents the antithesis of this vision. It is worse than a secessionist agenda; it is an agenda to make Canada a dysfunctional confederacy of selfish, inward-looking, disaggregated provinces.

And a brief lesson on equalization, just for DJones and anyone else who still doesn't understand how anything works.

Spoiler!

Her attack on the federal equalization program only further illustrates the point. She frames the program as one where “Alberta taxpayers can no longer be asked to continue to subsidize the entire country through equalization.”
Alberta’s taxpayers are like every other taxpayer in the country. They pay provincial taxes, and they pay federal taxes. Within Alberta, the provincial government redistributes that money, literally “subsidizing” rural areas, people who need health care, etc.
The money we all pay into the federal level does the same thing. When the feds make transfers back to provinces, we lift up (equalize) areas of the country to ensure all Canadians share a roughly minimal quality of social services and programs. It’s called being a country. This sort of redistribution is what every functional country does, whether they are a federation or a unitary state.
Once you understand how equalization actually works, it unmasks the core of Smith’s complaints about it: “Alberta’s taxpayers” pay more into federal coffers than they receive solely as a function of having higher incomes. It’s a nakedly greedy notion that because Alberta benefits from sitting on vast oil reserves the federal government shouldn’t use its own tax base to support other parts of the country.

But that’s not really the point. Because, as with all far-right populists, Smith’s agenda is as much about sowing division and hate, and about her own inept failures and lack of vision, as it is about serious constitutional reform.

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2026/02/2...st-Much-Worse/

[Fuzz]

More lies.


https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.7103138

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Wolven

In a backward way what you are pointing out is how horrible the UCP is and how their constant need to fight the feds has caused Alberta to miss out on a large amount of money that other provinces are getting because they are aligned to implementing Federal programs when Alberta is not.

What we are learning is, aligning to the Federal programs gets you Federal dollars and taking dumb positions to fight the Feds over things that would make lives better for your citizens gets you less money.

Therefore, if Alberta would stop being so stupid and trying to prevent public education, daycare, healthcare, dental care, pharma care, etc. then we would get more money from the feds.

So now the UCP position is trying to get the Federal money with no strings attached because Smith wants to grift that money into her buddies instead of into programs that would help Albertans but the Feds are not interested in that at all. Thus, Alberta continues to get less money because our provincial government is literally turning the money away.

So again, we give money to the feds because other provinces can't support themselves but to get our share of that money we need to listen to what the feds say.

They are a completely unnecessary middle man. There is no benefit to them being in the equation. The entire argument for them appears to be that you guys do not want Alberta or your municipalities to be in charge of what are provincial/municipal jurisdiction. You would rather Ottawa make decisions for you.

You do you I guess. Will never make sense to me why people want to give away decision making

[DJones]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I already covered the first half of this for you:




As for what we get back as individuals, it is again pretty much identical to my T4 counterpart in 8 other provinces. I get the same GST rebates, same access to a passport office, same access to an embassy/consulate when abroad, same access to safe food and drugs, same protections under the constitution (at least the ones my province doesn't tread on).

I also pay the same fee to enter any given National Park as any other Canadian. Though it is a little unfair that PEIrs have such easy access to all 27 sq km of PEI National Park, while I have to settle for backwaters like Banff and Jasper and Waterton. Unfair!

My city got the same access to public transit funding as other cities. Unfortunately my city has bungled that.

However, I didn't really benefit when the federal government facilitated a P3 to build a bridge between some little island province and the mainland, and now the feds provides ongoing subsidies to keep tolls reasonable. Unfair!

All the feds did for my province was use $4.5B in pocket change from the couch to buy a pipeline project. And then another measly $30B or so to get it built. Which was nice I guess, but when are they going to do something that REALLY benefits Alberta and Albertans?!?!

Minimum wage worker and a Doctor. Both pay taxes based on the same rules. Apparently that means they both contribute equally haha

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DJones

So again, we give money to the feds because other provinces can't support themselves but to get our share of that money we need to listen to what the feds say.

They are a completely unnecessary middle man. There is no benefit to them being in the equation. The entire argument for them appears to be that you guys do not want Alberta or your municipalities to be in charge of what are provincial/municipal jurisdiction. You would rather Ottawa make decisions for you.

You do you I guess.

Why is it "we"? Who is "we"? I know it's not me. Is it you? If so, you are doing very well for yourself already, so your greed is even more self-demeaning. If you can't figure out what I'm asking, it's another indication you don't know how things work.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why is it "we"? Who is "we"? I know it's not me. Is it you? If so, you are doing very well for yourself already, so your greed is even more self-demeaning. If you can't figure out what I'm asking, it's another indication you don't know how things work.

Calgary/Alberta/Western Canada. Whatever we you want. It's not any of us making decisions.

But let me guess, you don't like how politicians are elected here so its actually a good thing they aren't making decisions. That seems to be where you guys end up every time.

We just need to listen and obey the feds more. That way they'll give us more money back of the tax revenue that came from Alberta in the first place.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DJones

So again, we give money to the feds because other provinces can't support themselves but to get our share of that money we need to listen to what the feds say.

They are a completely unnecessary middle man. There is no benefit to them being in the equation. The entire argument for them appears to be that you guys do not want Alberta or your municipalities to be in charge of what are provincial/municipal jurisdiction. You would rather Ottawa make decisions for you.

You do you I guess. Will never make sense to me why people want to give away decision making

I'm happy to give away my decision making on vehicle safety standards to an expert body in Ottawa if it also means Dave down the street with 3 bald tires and a doughnut on a chop top 1967 Mustang also has no say. I think that's rational.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm happy to give away my decision making on vehicle safety standards to an expert body in Ottawa if it also means Dave down the street with 3 bald tires and a doughnut on a chop top 1967 Mustang also has no say. I think that's rational.

Yes, as you have said repeatedly. You do not want the people around you making decisions. The further away the better by the sounds of it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DJones

Calgary/Alberta/Western Canada. Whatever we you want. It's not any of us making decisions.

But let me guess, you don't like how politicians are elected here so its actually a good thing they aren't making decisions. That seems to be where you guys end up every time.

We just need to listen and obey the feds more. That way they'll give us more money back of the tax revenue that came from Alberta in the first place.

Ok, so you don't understand, despite it being explained to you over and over. At this point I think a lot here would agree it would be best for you to drop this until you can learn how our systems of government and finance work, because rational discussions are not possible if they do not have a basis of facts to work from.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DJones

Yes, as you have said repeatedly. You do not want the people around you making decisions. The further away the better by the sounds of it.

You have a dog sitting at your feet and you'd defer vaccination decision making to it because it's the closest warm body to you? And I'm the irrational one?

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ok, so you don't understand, despite it being explained to you over and over. At this point I think a lot here would agree it would be best for you to drop this until you can learn how our systems of government and finance work, because rational discussions are not possible if they do not have a basis of facts to work from.

What do you not think I understand? I understand that the feds control the majority of tax revenue. No one is arguing otherwise. The 1000s and 1000s of tax returns I've done make that very clear. You guys keep saying this or how you'll blow my mind but then never actually make a point. It's just you're greedy for not wanting to give so much money and power to Ottawa but then at the same time saying Alberta doesn't over contribute. So in that case it wouldn't be greedy I guess since we actually owe so much to the feds. They should thank us for taking over their spending.

I am saying I would flip the system and would remove them from the majority of non-federal concerns.

[Looch City]

It's hard to blow a mind that doesn't exist in the first place.

You're living in a fantasy land. What you talk about would never be feasible in today's society.

[Tron_fdc]

Well I don't know about you guys, but implementing fiefdoms with a feudal lord isn't really on my to do list in Canadian politics.

To each his own I guess.

[puffnstuff]

Definitely dont want to be Lord Farquaads fiefdom.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Does the D stand for Dickhead?

I think it does