Canmore population to double? Legal battle?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Kananaskis is an option, but places like Harvey Heights and Lake Louise just don't have enough developable area. And the idea of the NP embracing massive growth at LL is fantasy that isn't worth battling anyway.

West of the highway, sure. But on the other side there's lots of room, and even more as you go south. Hell, there's enough room even just between the 1A and the TC1 to the south to quadruple the size of the town, easily.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by woob

Nordegg is getting a natural gas line. Maybe that'll be the new mountain's edge town.

Nordegg has been pushing themselves for a while now on this. 11 would require a huge upgrade. Abraham Lake is worth visiting in the winter.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Lumby Lager

Some of them sure are not so swift, a few are amazing to deal with and quite smart. I worked with a few of them over the years in Canmore and have a lot of respect for Foubert, worked with her for years at the Outlook and other places.

I get scared every time the town tries to solve the housing problem, they F it up every time! One project that was done in 3 Sisters was shut down for ages because the developer was not getting paid. The units were not quite almost to lock up stage and then they sat for ever and got completely infested by mold. When the project got restarted every unit had to be remediated before it could be finished and the cost of so called affordable homes went through the roof.

Most of the people I know that were and still are residents say Canmorons not Canmorites.

Very true. Foubert is awesome. She even voted in November to pause the tax, but she was outvoted by the morons (with one exception). Then six days into January they announce Albertans are exempt. She wanted a pause as the Town waited for clarity from the province and they ignored her. She also didn't want to start the tax in 2025 because she thought it was rushed, the dumb ones ignored her, the town was sued and lost on the grounds of the tax being rushed. She's always right. She's always outvoted. The taxpayers keep paying millions. She should be mayor.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Kananaskis is an option, but places like Harvey Heights and Lake Louise just don't have enough developable area. And the idea of the NP embracing massive growth at LL is fantasy that isn't worth battling anyway.

Agreed. I didn't mean all of it in the same area, but combinations of areas in Kananaskis, the corridor between Canmore and Banff, underdeveloped areas in Kananaskis and under developed areas between the Banff to BC border corridor.

However, the issue still ultimately is that current infrastructure is stretched to its limit and these ideas are going through far faster than the planned infrastructure upgrades is being planned to address the increase in foot and road traffic will be able to handle.

I'm not on the side of those that live in the area that want to block it all just because they want to keep the small town vibes. The cat is out of the bag for that one and I'm on the side of wanting to grow and sustainably develop the area to be more awesome. But I'm also not really on the side of pushing these ideas as fast as possible without first thinking of how to address current issues that will amplify once these things are in and everyone rushes out to see it.

IMO in the short term, I think we would need to see a massive increase in some form of a bus traffic from an overflow area that doesn't have serious issues. Like a gigantic parking area in the Exshaw or similar area before Canmore that will then send a fleet of a half a dozen double decker busses at a reasonable price that's separate from town transit (ie: <$10 and/or up to 4 people per "car" at a capped rate of $25 or something "reasonable" to get people used to considering it over driving) to ensure regular bus departures every 20-30 minutes in a specific and limited loop to reduce road traffic in current high issue areas. Advertise it as a way to save on park pass costs. That and/or a train station that leaves in a similar schedule (maybe a bus station that ultimately turns into a train station?) that kinda looks like Lake Louise parking lot? Charge more for parking in the area to pay to develop these infrastructure needs while also amplifying the value people get going out there? EDIT: Also wondering if the idea of such a service being build beside the Stoney Nakoda Casino (?) vs Exshaw would be a good idea. About 25 mins from Canmore.


Whatever the solution is, it's going to be complex, not simple. But I don't think people will be able to stop development either. Slow it at best. So gotta find a compromise.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

West of the highway, sure. But on the other side there's lots of room, and even more as you go south. Hell, there's enough room even just between the 1A and the TC1 to the south to quadruple the size of the town, easily.

I don't know for certain, but I wonder what type of limitations exist due to crown controlled land vs reserve controlled land.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I don't know for certain, but I wonder what type of limitations exist due to crown controlled land vs reserve controlled land.

Provincial Crown though. And you know they like a private enterprise at the expense of nature.

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Very true. Foubert is awesome. She even voted in November to pause the tax, but she was outvoted by the morons (with one exception). Then six days into January they announce Albertans are exempt. She wanted a pause as the Town waited for clarity from the province and they ignored her. She also didn't want to start the tax in 2025 because she thought it was rushed, the dumb ones ignored her, the town was sued and lost on the grounds of the tax being rushed. She's always right. She's always outvoted. The taxpayers keep paying millions. She should be mayor.

One day I believe she will be mayor.( as long as she runs )

One of her biggest mentors was Carol Picard, one of the founders of the Outlook. Carol was also one of mine as well and I see & hear Carol in Tanya with everything she writes and says.

That is a very good thing. Carol was very well respected in Canmore for some very significant contributions to the town and community.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Lumby Lager

One day I believe she will be mayor.( as long as she runs )

One of her biggest mentors was Carol Picard, one of the founders of the Outlook. Carol was also one of mine as well and I see & hear Carol in Tanya with everything she writes and says.

That is a very good thing. Carol was very well respected in Canmore for some very significant contributions to the town and community.

That's awesome.

I don't even see eye to eye with her on the tax. She was a proponent of it, but she's smart, rational and willing to adapt as circumstances change. While she wanted a livability tax, she was vocal that tripling taxes wasn't going to work. If it was an extra 20% or something, I don't think there would have been interest in pushing back. I personally wouldn't have cared. But tripling? Give me a break.

Also all the talk like Fuzz's of 'dead neighbourhoods' and second homeowners 'ruining the community' etc. really galvanized the opposition. These talking points and tone were pushed hard by certain councillors like Graham and Mah. You can't let guys like that win, so the fight was on. Foubert - though not in my camp - was reasonable and respectful throughout. She's a gem and the town is lucky to have her if only her colleagues would defer to her better judgement.

[Fuzz]

I don't think I said those things. I said they are using limited space and sitting empty much of the year, which means there is less housing available for people who want to live there full time and contribute to the community by working, owning businesses, and other things that help build resilient communities.


Contrary to what Sliver believes, I'm not a "nobody in the valley" or "no new people". I just think Canmore would be a better place if there was enough housing for those who want to raise a family there, or live a few years working jobs like Sliver did in LL. Vacation homes that have people in them 100 days a year restrict those opportunities and increase the costs of pretty much everything by artificially limiting available workforce.


This is all pretty rational logical stuff when you look at it under an economic lens of supply and demand in a constricted environment. I know, I know. Sliver don't GAF.

[Sliver]

It's not logical at all. You think the valley can't handle more people, but you want to convert 26% of homes that are currently occupied on a part-time basis to full-time residences. You think the waste water treatment plant can handle that? You want to build more schools? We'd need more dentists, and lawyers, and grocery stores, and doctors, and on and on. It's absolutely ideal that 26% of homes are occupied by people who don't bank, educate, grocery shop, have doctors, etc. in town yet pay the same taxes as people who use municipal services and infrastructure 24/7. If you were to take those homes and turn them into places occupied full time you'd need to expand so many things.

[Fuzz]

So your problem with more people living in the community is that there would be more people to service the needs of people from in and outside the community?


You are losing the plot here. Why is 26% "absolutely ideal"? Why not 5%? Why not 95%?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not logical at all. You think the valley can't handle more people, but you want to convert 26% of homes that are currently occupied on a part-time basis to full-time residences. You think the waste water treatment plant can handle that? You want to build more schools? We'd need more dentists, and lawyers, and grocery stores, and doctors, and on and on. It's absolutely ideal that 26% of homes are occupied by people who don't bank, educate, grocery shop, have doctors, etc. in town yet pay the same taxes as people who use municipal services and infrastructure 24/7. If you were to take those homes and turn them into places occupied full time you'd need to expand so many things.

All true except for this part.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So your problem with more people living in the community is that there would be more people to service the needs of people from in and outside the community?

You are losing the plot here. Why is 26% "absolutely ideal"? Why not 5%? Why not 95%?

I'm not saying it's ideal; I'm saying it's fine and the market has more or less found a reasonable equilibrium for residents (part time and full time) with respect to services available for both groups, plus tourists.

I'm also saying if these part-time homes all of a sudden became full-time homes then it opens up a whole host of problems due to lack of services available for Canmore if we kept the current number of homes static. If you don't want development, then why would you want more full-time people? How much land do you need to build another school? Another grocery store? Mini malls and professional offices to service full-time people that currently take care of all their administrative/professional needs out of their cities where they reside in their primary residences?

I actually don't have a problem at all with how things are. I have a problem if you try to make me an out group and you an in group, but I won that so now I'm back to just laughing at all the whiners. I'm not going to feel bad for a 27-year-old barista who stupidly thinks me owning a condo means she can't. I earned it. It's mine. These people need to bitch amongst themselves and leave the rest of us out of it. Being from Canmore doesn't make you special or unique. There's no rule or equalizing force that says you should get to own there just because your parents did and nor should there be. People who grind, plan and save for it should get it. And they do. No enviablity tax will change that.

[Sliver]

Another interesting thing for the thread spectators: people in Canmore place a weirdly high value on their personal nostalgia. It's actually become a bit of a group think thing for them. They think that because they have a preference for the way things were that others should accomodate that, tip-toe around it, or apologize for being a part of the change. It's fkn crazy.

Are most of us born and raised Calgarians? I am. Don't know about you guys, but I've seen some changes around here. Lost biking trails, places we'd off-road, places we'd party when teens, seen the city frickin quadruple. But I don't know a single Calgarian who begrudges these changes or expects newcomers like Fuzz to bear any responsibility for these changes. We welcome people here because we're nice and know change is inevitable. Canmorites? Absolute idiots who are jerks AND think it's the fault of specific individuals that Canmore in 2026 is different from Canmore in 1994 and, oh boy, they're happy to tell you all about it while foaming at the mouth.

Lol, buncha tits.

[Fuzz]

Another interesting thing for the thread spectators: Sliver says a lot of things that he believes to be true about people(he's misrepresented my views a ton here) that are not. It makes his arguments seem more reasonable, but if you actually read what I write, and listen to what others have to say, you'll see he's just tossing feces around while claiming victory. I think I'll call it "Doing the Donald."




/no hard feelin's

[Sliver]

Further interesting reading for students of this thread. I'm a reliable narrator on the goings on and am able to accurately relay everything with objectivity and emotional detachment.

I'd like you all to be kind to Fuzz. He knows not what he does.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Are most of us born and raised Calgarians? I am. Don't know about you guys, but I've seen some changes around here. Lost biking trails, places we'd off-road, places we'd party when teens, seen the city frickin quadruple. But I don't know a single Calgarian who begrudges these changes or expects newcomers like Fuzz to bear any responsibility for these changes.

You honestly don't know any Calgarians who grumble about growth and say they liked a lot of QOL things better 30 years ago?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You honestly don't know any Calgarians who grumble about growth and say they liked a lot of QOL things better 30 years ago?

Correct in the sense that I don't know anybody who says that with malice toward people who moved here. I believe everyone feels nostalgia for aspects of the past, but it's only dopes of the highest order who weaponize that by othering an out-group for financial penalty.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You honestly don't know any Calgarians who grumble about growth and say they liked a lot of QOL things better 30 years ago?

I begrudge all day long. Fataing hate this place. Toilet.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You honestly don't know any Calgarians who grumble about growth and say they liked a lot of QOL things better 30 years ago?

I was hearing people grumble about this 30 years ago, too.