Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Coach

Really all the Canadian highways outside the cities should just be autobahns. They are huge straight roads.

Okay...I'm going to disagree with you, but only for one reason...have you seen some of the cars?

You referenced the Autobahn and I get that, but in my experience on the Autobahn you're rarely behind a 1986 Tercel that is shedding pieces by the mile and likely to fall apart at the seams at any moment.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay...I'm going to disagree with you, but only for one reason...have you seen some of the cars?

You referenced the Autobahn and I get that, but in my experience on the Autobahn you're rarely behind a 1986 Tercel that is shedding pieces by the mile and likely to fall apart at the seams at any moment.

Also, Germans know how to drive. Canadians not so much.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Also, Germans know how to drive. Canadians not so much.

Also yes.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Coach

Driving between Vancouver and Calgary a LOT over the past few years, I'd have to say that the BC speed limits seem to mostly be pretty bang on (ie, I wouldn't want to drive much faster than the limit safety-wise). The divided highway in the Banff National Park with the 90km speed limit is definitely the worst stretch (driving-wise. I understand why they have it that low for the park, but it's just a slog). Then after the park to Calgary, that should all be 130 IMO.

Really all the Canadian highways outside the cities should just be autobahns. They are huge straight roads.

I would absolutely love to witness the first busy day with a little bit of ice on the road at Lac Des Arc where some people are doing 80 with semis and others rounding that bend at 130-140. Or when people get nervous rounding the rock cut(which can also be really sketchy in winter or even just with strong winds). Never mind your average RV puller or Canadream motorhome doing 75.

Am I the only one who has experienced other people on these roads? Sure, with no one around you could do that. Start adding your average driver, and it's just going to be disaster.

I could see an argument for roads like Calgary to Medicine Hat or down to Lethbridge(and I'm sure there are some others). But Canmore to Calgary and Calgary to Edmonton are just never going to work unless we have driver licensing programs like Germany. People are just too ####ing dumb and the overpass entrances and exits are not designed to allow vehicles to reach safe merge speeds. Like this one here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/uN7PaHt5m12bB5xv9

Only spirited driving gets you to 120, and it's already a mess from the previous merge that has the uphill before it, causing people unfamiliar with the road to not move over, if they even could with vehicles zipping past at 140. Add in winter conditions, and I guess you just like to spend your days in accident caused traffic jams?

[troutman]

Also, Germany has twice the population of Canada in a country twice as small as Alberta.

We don’t have near enough traffic to have autobahns.

[edslunch]

My experience driving the autobahn in a Fiat 124 ‘Special’ that topped out at 130kph taught me a lot. Every time I thought the road was clear for miles back to pass the truck in front of me that’s going 90 there were instantly flashing headlights behind me from some Mercedes or Porsche doing twice my speed.

And at the slightest hint of slowdown you hit your 4-ways as fast as possible to avoid being the filling of a Porsche-Fiat-truck sandwich. But when they did crash is was multi-vehicle carnage.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

It's not the highways itself, it's the entrances and exits and the intersections where traffic is crossing or turning onto/off the highway.

Fix those first and then increase the speed limits.

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay...I'm going to disagree with you, but only for one reason...have you seen some of the cars?

You referenced the Autobahn and I get that, but in my experience on the Autobahn you're rarely behind a 1986 Tercel that is shedding pieces by the mile and likely to fall apart at the seams at any moment.

Yeah there's a lot that allows the autobahns to function, beginning with proper driving training and a culture of not suffering strugglers. Then infrastructure that allows it to function (ie all the roads have to be at least 3 lanes).

Really, I'd love a Snowpiercer bullet-train from Vancouver to Halifax (that skips Edmonton).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Coach

Yeah there's a lot that allows the autobahns to function, beginning with proper driving training and a culture of not suffering strugglers. Then infrastructure that allows it to function (ie all the roads have to be at least 3 lanes).

Really, I'd love a Snowpiercer bullet-train from Vancouver to Halifax (that skips Edmonton).

Naturally.

[Fuzz]

If you regularly attend theory classes and take driving lessons, it will take 3 to 5 months to get your license. A total of 14 theory units (90 minutes each) can be completed in 2-week crash courses at many driving schools. If you otherwise assume one theory unit per week, you will need 14 weeks for this.
The practice drives also last 90 minutes each. If your average is 30 hours and one unit per week, it takes 15 weeks. If the student wishes to do everything faster, there is an option for that as well: Many driving schools offer fast-track courses that prepare you for the theory and practical test within 1 to 2 weeks. Of course, this depends on your previous knowledge, talent, commitment and free time.

https://www.expatrio.com/about-germa...any-foreigners


It also costs about 5k Canadian. The comparison to Germany begins and ends with facts. The fact is, we are not comparable so no need to pretend otherwise.

[woob]

I think it’s wild that you can get your license as a teenager and that’s the extent of your driving education and testing. You get to drive for the rest of your life without proving you’re a competent driver.

Yes, there’s tickets and accidents and what not, that if you’re really bad, will catch up with you. But to not have to re-educate, re-test every 5-10 years is bonkers.

[Coach]

To clarify, what I like about the autobahn is the "theory" of it. The idea being, train people how to drive properly so speed limits don't really have to be a thing, you just have a driving culture that suffers no fools. Example: the above quote about a 130 limit meaning people will go that fast doing winter road conditions. Like, no... the point of the limit is not supposed to be "go exactly this fast all the time". Learn how to drive. Drive for the conditions. If you can't do that, you shouldn't have a license to drive.

I've always said I'd happily take a new driver test every 5 years to keep clowns off the road.

[TorqueDog]

All this talking about "OMG ICY ROADS" silliness ignores the point that you should drive to the conditions. We just drove to Big White from Calgary yesterday, you think I was doing the 100 KM/H limit in the curves during the snowy stretches? Hell, even some straight sections marked as 100 KM/H were 80 at best.

120 KM/H on a straight-as-an-arrow highway during normal, clear driving conditions is what most traffic is already doing, the 110 limit is only serving to create a greater speed differential between cars. Edge cases are exactly that, and not how you set speed limits.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

All this talking about "OMG ICY ROADS" silliness ignores the point that you should drive to the conditions. We just drove to Big White from Calgary yesterday, you think I was doing the 100 KM/H limit in the curves during the snowy stretches? Hell, even some straight sections marked as 100 KM/H were 80 at best.

120 KM/H on a straight-as-an-arrow highway during normal, clear driving conditions is what most traffic is already doing, the 110 limit is only serving to create a greater speed differential between cars. Edge cases are exactly that, and not how you set speed limits.

I think you know this is a bit of fantasy though.

“Just drive to conditions” OK a significant enough people don’t do that anyway or way overdo it so what difference doesn’t the speed limit matter?

“A greater speed differential” except as people get comfortable at 120 it’s just going to push the same speed differential to higher speeds and introduce a wider speed differential as some people just never get up to 120 because 100-110 was always good enough for them.

I get the arguments for it, truly. But you can’t just increase the speed limit. Improve the infrastructure (there are some stupid crossings, entries, and exits as it is that will only get more dangerous at greater speeds), improve driver training and testing (including moving licensing back under government control), and THEN we can talk speed.

Doing the last part first just means more, worse accidents.

[troutman]

Yes, improve infrastructure.

There should not be three stop lights south of Stoney on Macleod Trail. Developers of new neighborhoods should have been required to build overpasses.

[Sylvanfan]

I have to drive from my place in St.Albert to Red Deer quite frequently so I've done my share of miles on hiway 2. The one stretch that is the least busy is by far that leg from Ponoka to Leduc. So I think it's the one stretch where a higher limit could be implemented. Again 120 is 75 miles per hour which is quite common on many U.S. Interstates outside of urban areas. As for the stretch through Banff...I think that should be 100.

Removing the non controlled access crossings and having variable limits to suit conditions on the highway are definitely two things that should be done. I've been on it in July in heavy rain where 90 seemed too fast, and in November on a clear day where 120 is no issue.

[Fuzz]

One thing is for certain, the 80km on the TCH west end is the dumbest limit in the province. We just spent hundreds of millions to build for faster travel speed standards with long merges, weave zones, extra lanes... and yet came out with a lower speed than we started with. Drivers speeds ranging from 80 to 130. That's how you take something safe and make it sketchy. Hey, Devin. Go solve that, and then we can talk about other areas.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I have to drive from my place in St.Albert to Red Deer quite frequently so I've done my share of miles on hiway 2. The one stretch that is the least busy is by far that leg from Ponoka to Leduc. So I think it's the one stretch where a higher limit could be implemented. Again 120 is 75 miles per hour which is quite common on many U.S. Interstates outside of urban areas. As for the stretch through Banff...I think that should be 100.

Removing the non controlled access crossings and having variable limits to suit conditions on the highway are definitely two things that should be done. I've been on it in July in heavy rain where 90 seemed too fast, and in November on a clear day where 120 is no issue.

Not just outside urban areas but many interstates through major metro areas are 70 or 75 mph and they can be very congested with 4 to 6 lanes in each direction and exits/entrances every couple miles. Somehow people manage to navigate those at high speed every day.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Not just outside urban areas but many interstates through major metro areas are 70 or 75 mph and they can be very congested with 4 to 6 lanes in each direction and exits/entrances every couple miles. Somehow people manage to navigate those at high speed every day.

“Somehow” like the fact the infrastructure is actually designed for it instead of two lanes with at grade crossings and yields lol.

Always so close to the answer but never quite there.

[Bill Bumface]

In Europe, I can't think of ever being on a divided highway that had at great intersections controlled by stop signs. Those are always traffic circles, because it's rather insane to do anything else (and that's why people die at our stop sign controlled intersections every year).

If you have a highway with traffic circles all over it, the speed limit is never 120.

This reminds me of safe injection sites with none of the other supporting measures. Just pick the easy part in isolation and pretend you're doing something, when in fact you're making it worse for everyone.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by troutman

Yes, improve infrastructure.

There should not be three stop lights south of Stoney on Macleod Trail. Developers of new neighborhoods should have been required to build overpasses.

They need to extend the damn LRT while they’re at it. When they extended 194th from Silverado to macloed they built the tunnel for the tracks and they haven’t done anything since. The project has been sitting basically in limbo with the city for years. Laying down track when you already have the land isn’t rocket science or crazy expensive. Build a no bells or whistles platform and put a parking lot and a few bus stops next to it.

And before anyone points it out, yes I realize that the expression “no bells or whistles” may not be the best choice of words to describe a train platform and crossing that will literally need to have bells, and that some trains going through will have whistles.