Rumsfeld stumbles down memory lane - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

RougeUnderoos · 08-01-2007, 10:57 PM

Donald Rumsfeld and a few other bigwigs were yakking about the death of Pat Tillman today. Things are a little foggy, it seems, for the lot of them.

"Rumsfeld and Myers both said they couldn't remember precisely how they learned of Tillman's death or that it might be friendly fire."

"I don't recall precisely how I learned that he was killed," Rumsfeld said. "It could have been internally or it could have been through the press."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3121924.shtml

I'm no Washington bigshot, but I remember hearing that the guy was killed and I remember hearing weeks later about the friendly-fire stuff. It's surprising, to me at least, that these blokes don't remember. The human mind does have its quirks, but this was a big story. You'd think they'd at least have an inkling. I guess not.

CaptainCrunch · 08-01-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Donald Rumsfeld and a few other bigwigs were yakking about the death of Pat Tillman today. Things are a little foggy, it seems, for the lot of them.

"Rumsfeld and Myers both said they couldn't remember precisely how they learned of Tillman's death or that it might be friendly fire."

"I don't recall precisely how I learned that he was killed," Rumsfeld said. "It could have been internally or it could have been through the press."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3121924.shtml

I'm no Washington bigshot, but I remember hearing that the guy was killed and I remember hearing weeks later about the friendly-fire stuff. It's surprising, to me at least, that these blokes don't remember. The human mind does have its quirks, but this was a big story. You'd think they'd at least have an inkling. I guess not.

Honestly I don't have a problem with what was said in the article, while Tillman's death was tragic and preventable, it was the job of the Army, not the defence council or the Joint Chiefs to be involved in this or investigate it.

There has to be some insulation between the 4 branches of the military and the members at the top of the chain, it prevents conflicts of interest.

Rumsfields job (and in my mind he's done a poor one) is not to micromanage every aspect of the war, his job is to set out a general guidlines and guidposts of achievement, and the end scenarios, the joint chiefs flesh it out and ensure that the troops are committed properly and equipted properly and then it goes down from there.

If every friendly fire episode and questionable death, and equipment failure was to be investegated or acknowleged at the highest level there would be mass accusations from the four branches of meddling by the executive branch.

All questions for Tillman's death should have stopped at the various investigation organizations within the military chain of command.

RougeUnderoos · 08-02-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If every friendly fire episode and questionable death, and equipment failure was to be investegated or acknowleged at the highest level there would be mass accusations from the four branches of meddling by the executive branch.

This one was acknowledged at the highest level though. He was talked about in speeches and awarded a medal. It wasn't some Iowa farmboy who got 5 seconds of silence on PBS. This guy's death made news all over the world. The bigwigs come in and say "I don't remember when he died and I don't remember who told me it was friendly fire" seems like, you know, a lie.

Bring_Back_Shantz · 08-02-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This one was acknowledged at the highest level though. He was talked about in speeches and awarded a medal. It wasn't some Iowa farmboy who got 5 seconds of silence on PBS. This guy's death made news all over the world. The bigwigs come in and say "I don't remember when he died and I don't remember who told me it was friendly fire" seems like, you know, a lie.

What is so wrong with him not remembering the details of when/how he found out that Tillman was killed.

Do you remember when you found out?
Do you remember how you found out? (Was it on CNN, did you hear it on CP?)

The guy had a pretty big job, and not remembering how he first found out about what is in the big picture, a pretty small piece of information is pretty minor.

Cowperson · 08-02-2007, 09:33 AM

Why go with a small conspiracy when you can go with a big one?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/27/21214/1997

Cowperson

Flash Walken · 08-02-2007, 12:09 PM

Wouldn't be the first time a senior government official was on the job with Alzheimers...

RougeUnderoos · 08-02-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

What is so wrong with him not remembering the details of when/how he found out that Tillman was killed.

Do you remember when you found out?
Do you remember how you found out? (Was it on CNN, did you hear it on CP?)

The guy had a pretty big job, and not remembering how he first found out about what is in the big picture, a pretty small piece of information is pretty minor.

Come on now, we are talking about the death of the most famous soldier in the entire military, and then a major scandal based on the circumstances of that death and these guys are just shrugging their shoulders.

"Hey Donald, remember when we said Pat Tillman died in heroic fashion leading his troops into a counterattack"

"Yeah"

"Well, it turns out he was killed by our own guys"

"Really? Terrible. Anyway, that's not my problem. I'm just the Secretary of Defense. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to finish this paperwork".

FlamingLonghorn · 08-02-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Come on now, we are talking about the death of the most famous soldier in the entire military, and then a major scandal based on the circumstances of that death and these guys are just shrugging their shoulders.

"Hey Donald, remember when we said Pat Tillman died in heroic fashion leading his troops into a counterattack"

"Yeah"

"Well, it turns out he was killed by our own guys"

"Really? Terrible. Anyway, that's not my problem. I'm just the Secretary of Defense. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to finish this paperwork".

I hate Rummy as much as the next guy, but I don't think he would have been nor should he have been involved in these affairs. It was an Army matter. The Army should have taken care of it properly. Rumsfeld should deal with the wars on a whole not every incident with every single soldier. That is not his job. He probably said something like "let me know how the investigation turns out and figure out who to punish", but beyond that I don't expect him to know anything and when I saw that they were going to interview him on this matter I thought how pointless that was, because it is not something he should be dealing with that intimately.

worth · 08-02-2007, 12:35 PM

Yeah, the consipracy theory is Tillman was killed by the government because he would have been a leader for the anti-war movement.

I recall reading that he was shot 3 times in the head at close range, but I don't know if it was from a credible source.

mykalberta · 08-02-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Donald Rumsfeld and a few other bigwigs were yakking about the death of Pat Tillman today. Things are a little foggy, it seems, for the lot of them.

"Rumsfeld and Myers both said they couldn't remember precisely how they learned of Tillman's death or that it might be friendly fire."

"I don't recall precisely how I learned that he was killed," Rumsfeld said. "It could have been internally or it could have been through the press."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3121924.shtml

I'm no Washington bigshot, but I remember hearing that the guy was killed and I remember hearing weeks later about the friendly-fire stuff. It's surprising, to me at least, that these blokes don't remember. The human mind does have its quirks, but this was a big story. You'd think they'd at least have an inkling. I guess not.

Why?

He was one soldier killed in a war where the decision is one that probably everyone would like to take back but no longer can. And with respect, just because he was a mid level Safety in the NFL doenst mean he that the Secretary of Defence for the US would remeber his name.

Why not ask his direct commander, why some Generals who likely never once saw the guy and only know him because of the media attention.

Also, the multiple shots to the head dont mean a whole lot when there are guns out there that shoot 3 and 5 bullets with one trigger pull.

It was tragic what happened to this man. He was what should have been a movie type life. Fame, fortune in NFL, leaves to fight for country - wow, I wish my life was 1/2 of what his was.

MYK

RougeUnderoos · 08-02-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Why?

He was one soldier killed in a war where the decision is one that probably everyone would like to take back but no longer can. And with respect, just because he was a mid level Safety in the NFL doenst mean he that the Secretary of Defence for the US would remeber his name.

Ha. Come on now. Do you really believe the Secretary of Defense didn't know who the guy was? Really? That's your excuse? It's not even his own excuse. He didn't say "I didn't know who he was" or "I had never heard of him".

This guy was too incompetent for even George Bush to keep around. I can't believe he still has people supporting him.