Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

The way you talk down to people in your posts is very off putting. You can make your opinions known without adding snarky remarks at the end of every post.

I find it off-putting when people state things as facts when they aren't facts.

The poster said we've heard ownership publicly speak. Either I missed that or it didn't happen.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

On a few occasions this season I’ve seen guys getting score updates on their phones and cheering when the Flames are losing. A couple of them are seasons tickets holders. I think most of the fanbase is all aboard the tank train. Especially seeing guys like Celebrini, Bedard, and Carlsson lighting it up.

I agree. Which is why I wish the organization would lean into it publicly. It's silly that they don't. Clearly it would help everyone if their comments and actions were aligned. Doesn't need to be a big letter or massive declaration, but something as simple as "We are focused on building a team that can compete regularly for an extended period of time, which might mean some short-term pain to get there"

Something as simple as that. You don't need to come out and say you are going to dump all your vets, or name who you are going to trade.

It isn't that hard. But the franchise has never been good at this stuff.
- Feaster was a blow hard who never backed up what he said
- Sutter treated the media poorly and never saw it as part of his job to talk to the fans through the media
- Burke was probably the most direct about things.
- Tree I think was OK but people got tired of his repetition (the process, etc)
- Conroy has a natural and genuine style when he speaks. But he should be able to talk openly about where the team is.

Edit: And they should just avoid putting Maloney out in front of fans. Total unforced error. I don't pretend to know what he does, or what he is good at. But he's not good at THAT. So don't put him in that position (or don't allow him to put himself in that position) pariticularly when you have a guy who IS good at it (Conroy).
Hell put Nonis out there if you need to. Just not Maloney.

[dino7c]

Who has traded more meaningful players, spent less cap, had more firsts then Calgary the last couple years? They will trade the biggest name this season too

[cam_wmh]

Subtract Murray, and we don't have any of that blumbering occurring. The Franchise hasn't been good at this stuff, because in the salary cap era, he has been the one constant.

His second in command, with a 15 yr tenure, during a disappointing 22/23, season ender presser; “You used the word not me,” Bean responded. “I’m not allowed to ever use the word ‘rebuild'". Gone in a year. Has anyone mentioned in past posts, about the lack of loyalty to tenured employees?

His top-down, restrictive brand management, is again what we're seeing, and it's frankly indefensible.


How I remiss, Doc & Byron, Roger, both Norm's, and of course Harley. Proper leaders.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I don't know the tides seem to be turning for some fans. Talked to a few coworkers earlier who were very against a rebuild, but now they want to blow it up and start over. They have seen enough this year.

Things change when you start losing a lot. Obviously a few people on this site are happy with ownership, but it doesn't mean everyone is.

Most if not all fans I know are in the “nuke” it category. People, including most people here, aren’t stupid. I don’t actually know anybody who thinks this is a playoff team this year. Everybody wants a top pick.

But, I guarantee not one of those people paid much attention to what Maloney said if they saw it at all, and nobody is “tearing it apart” and “getting frustrated.”

It’s just hockey. People have to remember that for the vast majority of fans this is mindless entertainment and a source of water cooler talk. It’s date night or a night out with friends/family. It’s fun.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Who has traded more meaningful players, spent less cap, had more firsts then Calgary the last couple years? They will trade the biggest name this season too

They also haven't drafted at the top of the draft (yet), and puttered around in that mushy middle.

So what is it that they've done that will see they out-compete the next wave of teams in the Pacific Division?

Vegas will age, and their pool is uh...empty. However, if good players do become available in a good age range - they'll still likely get them. Top-3 destination in the league for players with the freedom of choosing their spot.

Edmonton...hehe. Thank you Florida, you've likely ended their relevancy and the peak of their build.

Anaheim? Younger, better, and will be for some years.

San Jose? Younger, better, and will be for some years.

Vancouver? Yeah, they've been more aimless than us. Massive props to Conroy and crew for not being Vancouver.

Seattle? Younger, slightly better, and ultimately...haven't really drafted where they need to, but their pool of prospects is as good if not better than ours.

LA? They're firmly locked in that mushy middle. They're actually a concern in my eyes as they could be what we see the Flames becoming without some really strong management and direction. LA is what you become when you do this 'on the fly' rubbish. Byfield, Brandt, and Turcotte were their top picks - 2nd, 8th, 5th. They'll never compete with San Jose and Anaheim. They ended up with one solid pick, and then two picks in that lower tier that run a higher risk of busting or just being good, and not great. This is also an issue I see with the "one year faceplant" perspective. One player won't see us compete with San Jose and Anaheim.

That's what the goal has to be. You have to not out-pace San Jose and Anaheim, because we can't directly compete with Vegas' model, and you don't want to be Vancouver, LA, or Seattle - because they've managed themselves into perpetual mushy middle muck.

I want the Flames battling San Jose and Anaheim. That's why you go proactive and deal at-minimum 2 of the 3 (Andersson, Coleman, Kadri) but really it should be all 3. It really should be all 3, and it really should begin soon because drafting 1-3 (maaaaybe 4, but risk is higher) should be the target and they should manage themselves accordingly.

I also see the moving of those three as giving the Flames a legit path to contending. Two top picks in 2026 + 2027 alongside the prospects already gained in the trades you noted and our last few drafts, alongside the picks/prospects we get back from Andersson, Coleman, and Kadri? That's Calgary really taking that next step in my eyes. Conroy will have given his scouting staff, and this team a real chance at high-end sustainability.

They want an exciting team in 2027? Two top picks, and a lot of other players arriving through development right around the same time? This fanbase will be in love with the new digs and the new talent.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Most if not all fans I know are in the “nuke” it category. People, including most people here, aren’t stupid. I don’t actually know anybody who thinks this is a playoff team this year. Everybody wants a top pick.

But, I guarantee not one of those people paid much attention to what Maloney said if they saw it at all, and nobody is “tearing it apart” and “getting frustrated.”

It’s just hockey. People have to remember that for the vast majority of fans this is mindless entertainment and a source of water cooler talk. It’s date night or a night out with friends/family. It’s fun.

You are right that it is mainly the die hards getting the most worked up. The average fan just wants to see us win, and if we don't win they will likely watch less Flames hockey.

It is funny though because I listened to the Maloney comments and I didn't really think anything of it. I certainly didn't expect him to come out and say we need to lose and rebuild. I think a lot of his rant today was just pent up frustration from years following the team.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s just hockey. People have to remember that for the vast majority of fans this is mindless entertainment and a source of water cooler talk. It’s date night or a night out with friends/family. It’s fun.

I was born in such sports city and was predestined to align in fandom for the local laundry, and therefore I have this innate, irrational behavior to passionately cheer, boo, debate & argue all things of my birthplace sports team.

So no, I will not do so passively, quietly, and with chill.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Like it or not this place is a very small sample of Flames fans. Of the posters here there is probably less than 50 that seem to be personally offended that the Flames haven't announced to them that they expect to be a s##tty team for the next 5 year on purpose.

That represents a very small portion of the fan base. I think they are hoping to keep the random fans coming to games and hoping the die-hards (ie fans posting on message boards) see the trading of a 1st line centre, #1 goaltender, couple of top Dmen, the lack of free agent signings, the huge amount of cap room available and number of draft picks and recognize they are getting what they want. Maybe they didn't see the small vocal minority needing a statement of tank to be placated, or most likely they just don't care.

Personally I think this notion that CP is representative of some small niche nerd superfan group is way off base.

1. There’s probably WAY MORE lurkers than there are posters- it’s not like this place is overly welcome to counter opinions

2. I have talked to many random people who know CP- like honestly I’d argue the majority of Flames fans. This site was made what- 20-30 yrs ago?

3. Of the small subset that do come around CP, there’s a huge other contingent of Flames fans that absolutely will share the opinions of those in this thread asking the organization to just be honest about the rebuild.

I could go on but this isn’t just some small niche group of blindly loyal Flames fans. I bet you the opinions spouted here are way more representative of the overall fanbase.

I haven’t followed the Flames much or passionately this year not because they are bad, but because nothing is new. They have not publicly stated they’re going in a new direction and I can’t support that anymore. IMO it’s put up or shut up time. Announce you’re in a ####ing rebuild. It’s not that hard. It’s become beyond idiotic not to.

I had a beer with a guy yesterday who knows a Flames management person. They literally could get fired for saying rebuild or Gavin McKenna. Nobody is allowed. How stupid is that?

Last- anyone that has done business with CNRL knows exactly what management of this team is up against. It’s not good. He approves absolutely everything. There’s no autonomy when it comes to having Edwards as your boss. The folks at CNQ can’t buy a section of land without him knowing for Christ sakes. So there’s not a god damn chance in hell that multimillion dollar assets (players) are being traded without his approval. Zero. He’s the one causing all of this mess. All of it.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Everyone said Kadri was an overpay at the time. Especially in this site. .

I don't recall this.

Everyone? This doesn't seem like a fact.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I was born in such sports city and was predestined to align in fandom for the local laundry, and therefore I have this innate, irrational behavior to passionately cheer, boo, debate & argue all things of my birthplace sports team.

So no, I will not do so passively, quietly, and with chill.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Teams need die hard that get INVESTED in ways most people don’t. So my comment isn’t meant as shade at all, especially because I love reading the takes of people invested in the game at the deepest level. My only intent was to add some perspective.

[Strange Brew]

Fact: Maloney had to change his underwear after accidentally using the word rebuild.

Amongst all the bickering can we not all agree that was awkward as hell and just a little funny?

"Rebuild, uhh rebiggle, uhhh retool"

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They also haven't drafted at the top of the draft (yet), and puttered around in that mushy middle.

So what is it that they've done that will see they out-compete the next wave of teams in the Pacific Division?

Vegas will age, and their pool is uh...empty. However, if good players do become available in a good age range - they'll still likely get them. Top-3 destination in the league for players with the freedom of choosing their spot.

Edmonton...hehe. Thank you Florida, you've likely ended their relevancy and the peak of their build.

Anaheim? Younger, better, and will be for some years.

San Jose? Younger, better, and will be for some years.

Vancouver? Yeah, they've been more aimless than us. Massive props to Conroy and crew for not being Vancouver.

Seattle? Younger, slightly better, and ultimately...haven't really drafted where they need to, but their pool of prospects is as good if not better than ours.

LA? They're firmly locked in that mushy middle. They're actually a concern in my eyes as they could be what we see the Flames becoming without some really strong management and direction. LA is what you become when you do this 'on the fly' rubbish. Byfield, Brandt, and Turcotte were their top picks - 2nd, 8th, 5th. They'll never compete with San Jose and Anaheim. They ended up with one solid pick, and then two picks in that lower tier that run a higher risk of busting or just being good, and not great. This is also an issue I see with the "one year faceplant" perspective. One player won't see us compete with San Jose and Anaheim.

That's what the goal has to be. You have to not out-pace San Jose and Anaheim, because we can't directly compete with Vegas' model, and you don't want to be Vancouver, LA, or Seattle - because they've managed themselves into perpetual mushy middle muck.

I want the Flames battling San Jose and Anaheim. That's why you go proactive and deal at-minimum 2 of the 3 (Andersson, Coleman, Kadri) but really it should be all 3. It really should be all 3, and it really should begin soon because drafting 1-3 (maaaaybe 4, but risk is higher) should be the target and they should manage themselves accordingly.

I also see the moving of those three as giving the Flames a legit path to contending. Two top picks in 2026 + 2027 alongside the prospects already gained in the trades you noted and our last few drafts, alongside the picks/prospects we get back from Andersson, Coleman, and Kadri? That's Calgary really taking that next step in my eyes. Conroy will have given his scouting staff, and this team a real chance at high-end sustainability.

They want an exciting team in 2027? Two top picks, and a lot of other players arriving through development right around the same team? This fanbase will be in love with the new digs and the new talent.

There is no reason for this team to not become the next Colorado if we do this right. Tank and get a top 3 pick this year. Tank again and get a top 5 pick next year. Trade Kadri, and Coleman and Andersson for some 1sts and prospects. Now you have 2 hopefully elite talents.

You have some other 1st rounders you drafted recently who you hope can step up. You have a franchise goalie in Wolf. You have a really good 2nd liner in Coronato. By all scouting accounts we have had really good drafts recently, continue doing that the next few years.

But you have to make the choice to do this. You HAVE TO tank. You cannot keep Kadri and Coleman, you have to get good returns for these aging vets. If you can get something decent for a Farabee or any of the older dmen trade them too.

If you go full out with this rebuild for a few years there is actually hope we can build a winner. It is so obvious what needs to happen, so let's hope they do the right thing.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Who has traded more meaningful players, spent less cap, had more firsts then Calgary the last couple years? They will trade the biggest name this season too

So why not just say you’re in a rebuild?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I had a beer with a guy yesterday who knows a Flames management person. They literally could get fired for saying rebuild or Gavin McKenna. Nobody is allowed. How stupid is that?

Can they say rebiggle?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Fact: Maloney had to change his underwear after accidentally using the word rebuild.

Amongst all the bickering can we not all agree that was awkward as hell and just a little funny?

"Rebuild, uhh rebiggle, uhhh retool"

That was my initial reaction. Thought it was funny as hell when it slipped out and he seemed panicked to correct himself

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

But you have to make the choice to do this. You HAVE TO tank. You cannot keep Kadri and Coleman, you have to get good returns for these aging vets. If you can get something decent for a Farabee or any of the older dmen trade them too.

The question is, do you want a good return, or do you want the return you can get right this minute? A number of posters seem to have their knickers in a twist because the trades are not happening RFN.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Personally I think this notion that CP is representative of some small niche nerd superfan group is way off base.

1. There’s probably WAY MORE lurkers than there are posters- it’s not like this place is overly welcome to counter opinions

2. I have talked to many random people who know CP- like honestly I’d argue the majority of Flames fans. This site was made what- 20-30 yrs ago?

3. Of the small subset that do come around CP, there’s a huge other contingent of Flames fans that absolutely will share the opinions of those in this thread asking the organization to just be honest about the rebuild.

I could go on but this isn’t just some small niche group of blindly loyal Flames fans. I bet you the opinions spouted here are way more representative of the overall fanbase.

I haven’t followed the Flames much or passionately this year not because they are bad, but because nothing is new. They have not publicly stated they’re going in a new direction and I can’t support that anymore. IMO it’s put up or shut up time. Announce you’re in a ####ing rebuild. It’s not that hard. It’s become beyond idiotic not to.

I had a beer with a guy yesterday who knows a Flames management person. They literally could get fired for saying rebuild or Gavin McKenna. Nobody is allowed. How stupid is that?

Last- anyone that has done business with CNRL knows exactly what management of this team is up against. It’s not good. He approves absolutely everything. There’s no autonomy when it comes to having Edwards as your boss. The folks at CNQ can’t buy a section of land without him knowing for Christ sakes. So there’s not a god damn chance in hell that multimillion dollar assets (players) are being traded without his approval. Zero. He’s the one causing all of this mess. All of it.

I don't doubt Edwards reach, and that Bingo isn't even once-removed.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The question is, do you want a good return, or do you want the return you can get right this minute? A number of posters seem to have their knickers in a twist because the trades are not happening RFN.

Can the Flames get more for Kadri today or at the deadline? I’m not so sure it’s cut and dry.

They sure as #### need to trade him this year though. Let’s not make the Andersson mistake again.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The question is, do you want a good return, or do you want the return you can get right this minute? A number of posters seem to have their knickers in a twist because the trades are not happening RFN.

It needs to happen by the trade deadline. Kadri and Andersson have to be gone by that day.

This is just my opinion of course, but that is my deadline. You absolutely cannot keep them, and Coleman should be gone too if you can get a 1st.