Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by atb

We need some of that Feaster "intellectual honesty"




https://nationalpost.com/sports/hock...-trade-rumours


The worst thing about the above quote, is that this was in 2011. Since then, the Flames have made the playoffs 5 times, and only as far as the 2nd round.

It's funny because this was Dec. 2011. The "no issues with Brent Sutter" turned into Brent being fired in April 2012. They missed the POs.

Despite his "intellectual honesty" and missing the POs that year (and the following year), Feaster went out and acquired Mike Cammaleri, Blair Jones, Dennis Wideman and traded down in the draft.

It's also worth remembering that, despite the notion to sell off that followed, the fallout from trading Jaybo and Iginla and the returns from those deals was not positive generally.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What specific part of the direction are you fed up with. Actual things they've DONE that you are upset about.

They are in last place in the league. This is what you wanted.

And you don't know if it is their opinion or not. It could be an exaggerated form of it. Or it could be what they really feel.
But make no mistake - it's a show. It's entertainment.

Like I said yesterday, this isn't even a Conroy issue for me. I like Conroy.

The problem is it is very evident to me that we need to rebuild. And it is puzzling to me why Steinberg, Dreger, Friedman, and others in the media have all said we are not interested in trading Kadri and Coleman.

If it came out today that we are shopping Kadri, Coleman, Andersson and other vets. And that they will take the best offer by the deadline, I would be ecstatic and it would mean finally the ownership gets it. But even the thought of keeping Kadri or Coleman past the deadline is absolutely crazy.

Both will net you great value, and it will show we are committed to a rebuild. Until then, no I am not happy until we start being proactive in our decision making.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The notion that NHL teams base their assessment of their rivals’ intentions on comments they make to the media is laughable.

Fans seem to be buying it

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Like I said yesterday, this isn't even a Conroy issue for me. I like Conroy.

The problem is it is very evident to me that we need to rebuild. And it is puzzling to me why Steinberg, Dreger, Friedman, and others in the media have all said we are not interested in trading Kadri and Coleman.

If it came out today that we are shopping Kadri, Coleman, Andersson and other vets. And that they will take the best offer by the deadline, I would be ecstatic and it would mean finally the ownership gets it. But even the thought of keeping Kadri or Coleman past the deadline is absolutely crazy.

Both will net you great value, and it will show we are committed to a rebuild. Until then, no I am not happy until we start being proactive in our decision making.

Well let's see what they do. Lots of people here are telling you it is their plan to trade those guys this year.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Like I said yesterday, this isn't even a Conroy issue for me. I like Conroy.

The problem is it is very evident to me that we need to rebuild. And it is puzzling to me why Steinberg, Dreger, Friedman, and others in the media have all said we are not interested in trading Kadri and Coleman.

If it came out today that we are shopping Kadri, Coleman, Andersson and other vets. And that they will take the best offer by the deadline, I would be ecstatic and it would mean finally the ownership gets it. But even the thought of keeping Kadri or Coleman past the deadline is absolutely crazy.

Both will net you great value, and it will show we are committed to a rebuild. Until then, no I am not happy until we start being proactive in our decision making.

The flames are re-building, but there's no rush to trade every vet on the roster right now...theyre already dead last! Hell, I could probably make the argument that moving out some of the vets and replacing them with rookies, may actually make them a better team and achieve the exact opposite of what you (and I) want.

They have two years to trade Kadri. I think they likely trade him at the deadline next year and get a 1st round pick out of it anyway. They already have two 1st round picks this year so spreading them out over the next few years isnt a bad idea.

It'll be ok. They're re-building. Everone knows they're rebuilding. Every decision made in the past two years shows us that they are, in fact, re-building.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well let's see what they do. Lots of people here are telling you it is their plan to trade those guys this year.

To be clear, and not that you attributed that to me, I don't know if that's their plan or not. At minimum I hope they are open to deals.
If they don't trade Rasmus that's a fail.

I can understand reasons to keep Kadri and/or Coleman. But it really depends on the offers.

I always felt Coleman was ideal to trade the deadline before his deal expires (e.g. next season) and I don't know if the return differs much now v. then. It also seems he is a guy who does help those he plays with.

Kadri I didn't see being traded this season, but that was because we all thought he still had a full NTC. That not being the case changes things for sure. And I think unlike Coleman, his value probably is higher this season.

Ultimately I'm pretty sure Rasmus goes this season.
50% chance one of the others go
25% chance all 3 go.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well let's see what they do. Lots of people here are telling you it is their plan to trade those guys this year.

Who besides Royle? He is the only one giving us hope right now, and I really want to believe it.

[GioforPM]

Aside from injury risk and "falling off a cliff" (which neither player shows any sign of doing) what are people worried about if there's a delay in trading Kadri or Coleman? I don't see a lot of evidence that values would change over the year.

Before people wanted them traded (and Rasmus) because it would make the team worse, and help the tank. But the Flames are in last place anyway.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

The flames are re-building, but there's no rush to trade every vet on the roster right now...theyre already dead last! Hell, I could probably make the argument that moving out some of the vets and replacing them with rookies, may actually make them a better team and achieve the exact opposite of what you (and I) want.

They have two years to trade Kadri. I think they likely trade him at the deadline next year and get a 1st round pick out of it anyway. They already have two 1st round picks this year so spreading them out over the next few years isnt a bad idea.

It'll be ok. They're re-building. Everone knows they're rebuilding. Every decision made in the past two years shows us that they are, in fact, re-building.

The reason I want Kadri gone asap is to lock down a top 3 pick this year. And to ensure another likely top 3 next year.

Imagine if we had two top 3 picks, plus Zayne, plus Wolf... that would be a really good foundation. Not to mention all the additional picks we would get trading Kadri and Coleman and Andersson.

You could be looking at playoffs again in 3 or 4 years if you do it right.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Who besides Royle? He is the only one giving us hope right now, and I really want to believe it.

Button

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

The reason I want Kadri gone asap is to lock down a top 3 pick this year. And to ensure another likely top 3 next year.

Imagine if we had two top 3 picks, plus Zayne, plus Wolf... that would be a really good foundation. Not to mention all the additional picks we would get trading Kadri and Coleman and Andersson.

You could be looking at playoffs again I'm 3 or 4 years if you do it right.

Dude, they are in last place with 2 more games than their closest "competitor" (which has a much better team). The only way they don't pick top 2 is with crappy lottery luck.

And you are fooling yourself about a PO spot in 3 or 4 years after that happens.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

The reason I want Kadri gone asap is to lock down a top 3 pick this year. And to ensure another likely top 3 next year.

Imagine if we had two top 3 picks, plus Zayne, plus Wolf... that would be a really good foundation. Not to mention all the additional picks we would get trading Kadri and Coleman and Andersson.

You could be looking at playoffs again in 3 or 4 years if you do it right.

Again, I could make the argument that keeping Kadri, a second line, 36 year old centre, and having him play up the roster, in an elevated #1 centre role, achieves exactly what you want anyway.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

To be clear, and not that you attributed that to me, I don't know if that's their plan or not. At minimum I hope they are open to deals.
If they don't trade Rasmus that's a fail.

I can understand reasons to keep Kadri and/or Coleman. But it really depends on the offers.

I always felt Coleman was ideal to trade the deadline before his deal expires (e.g. next season) and I don't know if the return differs much now v. then. I also seem he as a guy who does help those he plays with.

Kadri I didn't see being traded this season, but that was because we all thought he still had a full NTC. That not being the case changes things for sure. And I think unlike Coleman, his value probably is higher this season.

Ultimately I'm pretty sure Rasmus goes this season.
50% chance one of the others go
25% chance all 3 go.

I'm with you, I have no clue what their actual plan is for those guys. I'm not defending Maloney either way. Either he articulated their actual thinking (which would be scary) or as some believe, he's selling some BS to fans (not scary, just insulting). Big picture, means nothing but just fun to talk about. I'm not as dismissive of the disappointment we are hearing from so many fans.

Not trading Kadri this season is a fail IMO and I would criticize them for it. Of course we can always say that no one met Conroy's price so he was smart to hold on. But he needs to be actively shopping him and making it clear the return he requires to move him. And if he doesn't move him, it should be because he has high confidence he will get that return next year. And if in doubt, move him. Lots of risk in that asset declining in value.

My feelings on Coleman are less strong. He makes young players better, we can use that.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Who besides Royle? He is the only one giving us hope right now, and I really want to believe it.

I truly believe everyone believes what they are reporting or posting anonymously on the internet. I'm not in the camp of trying to discredit or calling them misinformed since I know nothing.

I say let's see what happens over next four months. Maybe it's better to be pleasantly surprised than to expect a massive haul for these guys and be disappointed.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'm with you, I have no clue what their actual plan is for those guys. I'm not defending Maloney either way. Either he articulated their actual thinking (which would be scary) or as some believe, he's selling some BS to fans (not scary, just insulting). Big picture, means nothing but just fun to talk about. I'm not as dismissive of the disappointment we are hearing from so many fans.

Not trading Kadri this season is a fail IMO and I would criticize them for it. Of course we can always say that no one met Conroy's price so he was smart to hold on. But he needs to be actively shopping him and making it clear the return he requires to move him. And if he doesn't move him, it should be because he has high confidence he will get that return next year. And if in doubt, move him. Lots of risk in that asset declining in value.

My feelings on Coleman are less strong. He makes young players better, we can use that.

Yes we largely agree.
My ideal scenario is probably Kadri+Rasmus this year and Coleman next year
I'm also good with all 3 going.

Less ideal
Rasmus+Coleman
Just Rasmus

Not ideal
None of them

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

But he needs to be actively shopping him and making it clear the return he requires to move him. And if he doesn't move him, it should be because he has high confidence he will get that return next year. And if in doubt, move him. Lots of risk in that asset declining in value.

I suspect most people agree with all of this. The problem?....none of it will ever come to light as to whether the scenario actually occurred.

.......Maybe it already has occurred?

[Jay Random]

Clearly the Saddledome should have been built entirely out of glass so we could see all the way into Conroy's office and follow everything he does in real time.

Oh, great… I just made myself picture all of CP standing outside the building with their noses and fingers up against the windows, leaving prints on everything and costing the team a fortune in Windex.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

I suspect most people agree with all of this. The problem?....none of it will ever come to light as to whether the scenario actually occurred.

.......Maybe it already has occurred?

True.

Lots of people were critical that the Flames under Sutter were too slow to move on from the aging core and in particular Iginla.

Kadri is no Iginla.
That team was far more competitive than this one.
The return on Iginla was pathetic.

I'm hoping Flames err on the side of moving too soon than too late on this one. The good news is that the club this time has shown over and over a willingness to trade players for picks.

[dino7c]

People act like Chicago, SJ, Anaheim...whatever other flavor of the month didn't/don't have any vets on their rosters

[TheScorpion]

They do, although the ones they have generally don't have enormous trade value or they'd be gone.