Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by peter12

Crossing the floor is gross. It's unfortunate our system allows it. His constituents didn't elect a Liberal, they elected a Conservative. A floor-crossing should automatically trigger a by-election.

Originally Posted by peter12

It's not new at all. It's just an obviously self-interested move which blatantly disregards the will of constituents. I love how blindly partisan you are in defending it. Okay, yes, your team won this. Good work.

They elected a representative, not a team jersey. If that person believes crossing the floor better serves their constituents, that's their prerogative. Pretending it's illegitimate just because it's not your team is the actual partisanship here.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Wolven

You are arguing that there is "over-regulation" as if regulations are a hurdle.

I am arguing that "over-regulation" is nonsense because regulations are not a hurdle, they are a language between corporations and governments that represent people.

Think of it like computer programming. When you need to write a function, you might be able to write it with 1000 lines of code or 100 lines of code. Obviously writing it with 100 lines of code is more effective. But you are arguing to just delete the function entirely because you think there are too many functions.

...that is probably the worst example to make a point? Of course you do find efficiencies in code, as less code is less memory and process intensive and will inherently make the application run faster. You have to consider memory and storage constraints (especially in the past). You are thought to write more efficient code in computer science. If you can make it work with 100 lines of code instead of 1000 you do, and sometimes have to. Bad inefficient programming causes games to run like a potato.

Google quite literally became Google and the de facto search engine because of it's ingenious algorithm making searching as fast as possible and efficient.

Take it another way in terms of regulation. How does preventing BC wine from being sold in Ontario help Canadians or people in any way? Tell us how it protects consumers?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ott...ooze-1.7476087

"Buying B.C. wine in Ottawa is going to become a reality, because we are going to see trade barriers come down in Canada," she said.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10976168/...rade-barriers/

Quebec’s provincial regulations mean he can’t sell his beer across the Ottawa River.

“We ran into a situation a few years ago where a friend was getting married on the Quebec side of a particular structure that straddles Ontario and Quebec. We couldn’t sell beer to his wedding. They weren’t aware that this was the law when they booked the location,” he said.

These are the type of regulations that hinder consumers and businesses alike for the sake of regulating. I understand you are trying to argue regulations down to corporations wanting free reign to dump toxic waste in lakes if deregulation happens, but this is not at all what people are discussing when speaking of over-regulation.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

They elected a representative, not a team jersey. If that person believes crossing the floor better serves their constituents, that's their prerogative. Pretending it's illegitimate just because it's not your team is the actual partisanship here.

Haha okay.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by peter12

Haha okay.

$50 says he gets re-elected in 3 years if he runs again.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

$50 says he gets re-elected in 3 years if he runs again.

Fun how he was happy sitting as a CPC member for the last ... 6 years lol. Come on. Canadians should be rolling their eyes at this opportunism. Instead they defend it like total party ####s.

[Dentoman]

It's not like he is crossing the floor with a huge CPC mandate from the election. He was elected by 1.1 percent - less than 600 votes.
Red Tories, as MP's and voters, are tired of this present iteration of the CPC with Poilievre as leader. I voted Liberal federally for the first time in my life last time .... and I don't regret it one iota.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by peter12

Fun how he was happy sitting as a CPC member for the last ... 6 years lol. Come on. Canadians should be rolling their eyes at this opportunism. Instead they defend it like total party ####s.

Maybe he has just had enough .... much like a lot of us Red Tories

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

They elected a representative, not a team jersey. If that person believes crossing the floor better serves their constituents, that's their prerogative. Pretending it's illegitimate just because it's not your team is the actual partisanship here.

Yeah, I kind of dont really know how to feel about this. Fundamentally I agree with you, but at the same time the constituents elected 'that' representative because presumably they are more Conservative?

So in that context the concept of not serving his constituents could technically hold true if those people were more hardcore Cons, however by the same token if that representative feels that they are not 'hardcore Cons' and would be better served by Carney's Liberals then by that measure he would indeed be fulfilling his Mandate.

The Devil is in the details really and I guess we'll see what happens when the next Election rolls around.

Its kind of strange right now because, there are people who voted Conservative only to see that party sliding too far right, in which case their elected representative could see his way to more accurately representing his constituents by taking this action.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by peter12

Fun how he was happy sitting as a CPC member for the last ... 6 years lol. Come on. Canadians should be rolling their eyes at this opportunism. Instead they defend it like total party ####s.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Absolutely nothing has changed over the course of the last 6 years.

Anyone who was happy with the direction/leadership of the CPC 6 years ago obviously must have no issue with it today.

[peter12]

His riding basically flips Liberal and Conservative every other election. It's a tight riding which means votes count more than anything. Look, this is cheesy undemocratic opportunism. Just tell it like it is. The self-deception is a little gross.

[IliketoPuck]

Grievance politics are exhausting and suck the oxygen out of the room for any form of productive dialogue.

It's probably in the best long term interest of the CPC to have more members cross the floor, as it likely drives a level of forced introspection that results in the party adopting a more centrist stance that resonates better.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by peter12

Fun how he was happy sitting as a CPC member for the last ... 6 years lol. Come on. Canadians should be rolling their eyes at this opportunism. Instead they defend it like total party ####s.

You can't be this thick. Any idea what has happened within the last six years that might have changed his opinion on whether the CPC was the right party for them? Bouncing from rudderless leader to rudderless leader and now they end up with a guy so unpopular he has to be airdropped into some rural armpit in Alberta just to get back into Parliament.

There's a non-zero sum of people on this very board -- myself included -- who, six years ago, were open to the idea that a CPC led by a reasonable leader (*cough* MacKay) could be an option we'd vote for. That feels like such a very long time ago, these days.

[peter12]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the party's stance at all. What exactly is so "extreme" about it? It's position on the carbon tax? Oh right.

Poilievre deserves to stay. He increased the CPC vote share to its highest ever, won a ton of seats in Ontario, and won his leadership review.

If you don't like how he "opposes this government," well you should read a bit more. It's his job and he's very good at it.

For the record, I'm not a big CPC or Poilievre guy (although I did support them in last election), but I really respect the way Poilievre has hammered on the cost of living issues faced by people under 35 in a way that Carney will never do.

We're looking at a real generational split in the way Canadians see our politics.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by peter12

Fun how he was happy sitting as a CPC member for the last ... 6 years lol. Come on. Canadians should be rolling their eyes at this opportunism. Instead they defend it like total party ####s.

Chris d'Entremont has been a life-long conservative. He has acknowledged that the party under PP is no longer a conservative party and no longer a party that aligns with his ideology.

Instead of blindly attacking him, maybe you should listen to him and consider what he is saying. The CPC is not the party it used to be when it was the PC party. Hell, he is even saying that the CPC is not the party it was under Sheer or O'Toole. Poilievre himself is poisoning the party by driving it harder into authoritarianism than conservative values.

Conservatives keep crying about how the last decade went but they never acknowledge that they are to blame. Had the conservatives elected a viable leader (like Peter MacKay) instead of Sheer, O'Toole, and now Poilievre, they likely would have formed government 5 years ago.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by peter12

Fun how he was happy sitting as a CPC member for the last ... 6 years lol. Come on. Canadians should be rolling their eyes at this opportunism. Instead they defend it like total party ####s.

Sure, or he sees a better path for his riding than staying hitched to a perennial loser who is more focused on the previous PM than the problems before us. By all accounts he got nothing, he was just sick of Pollievre's hollow posturing and useless rhetoric. It cannot be that shocking. Pierre's own riding was sick of him, you think the people who have to actually deal with his snowflake self are not sick of it too?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Grievance politics are exhausting and suck the oxygen out of the room for any form of productive dialogue.

It's probably in the best long term interest of the CPC to have more members cross the floor, as it likely drives a level of forced introspection that results in the party adopting a more centrist stance that resonates better.

Forced or not, I don't think any form of introspection is the strong suit of this iteration of the CPC.

Exhibit A:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_B...al_by-election

[peter12]

This isn't the result of Conservatives becoming less popular (they are the most popular they have been since the Mulroney days). This is just the electoral math driven by the collapse of the NDP and the way seats fall in Ontario and Quebec. Which is also why you haven't seen a Liberal majority government in awhile. Canada is becoming increasingly ungovernable from the centre.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Sure, or he sees a better path for his riding than staying hitched to a perennial loser who is more focused on the previous PM than the problems before us. By all accounts he got nothing, he was just sick of Pollievre's hollow posturing and useless rhetoric. It cannot be that shocking. Pierre's own riding was sick of him, you think the people who have to actually deal with his snowflake self are not sick of it too?

Then he should step aside and run in a by-election. Honestly, what's so hard about any of this?

[IliketoPuck]

Time to spin off the wildrose and reform back to whence they came.

Isolating that nonsense in a new party would be illuminating for them, as I suspect it would quickly become apparent to most Canadians that they are now being represented by a party that is closer to Maxime Bernier than it is to the center of the spectrum.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't think there is anything wrong with the party's stance at all. What exactly is so "extreme" about it? It's position on the carbon tax? Oh right.

Poilievre deserves to stay. He increased the CPC vote share to its highest ever, won a ton of seats in Ontario, and won his leadership review.

If you don't like how he "opposes this government," well you should read a bit more. It's his job and he's very good at it.

For the record, I'm not a big CPC or Poilievre guy (although I did support them in last election), but I really respect the way Poilievre has hammered on the cost of living issues faced by people under 35 in a way that Carney will never do.

We're looking at a real generational split in the way Canadians see our politics.

He's very good at what he does, unfortunately, that, in fact, is NOT his job.

The job of the opposition, especially with a minority government, is to represent the interests of their constituents, and Canadians as a whole.
Sometimes that means opposing the government.
Sometimes that means working with them to find a better/more workable solution.

It doesn't always work that way, but PP has made it his whole personality/platform, that he will only ever do the former.

His job is to work to get the best outcome for Canada, not to whine, complain, and produce useless soundbites.