The Tariff Thread

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I hadn't realized until now just how flacid the US "checks and balances" system actually is. What a failure of a system of governance. Way to go, founders. You sure failed hard on that one.

They saw this coming. Madison literally warned that "enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm". The system was built to survive idiots and egomaniacs, as long as the people running it respected the rules.

The problem isn't the design, it's that the 'factions' stopped caring about anything but winning. The guardrails only work when everyone agrees they exist. The system didn't fail so much as the people failed the system.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

They saw this coming. Madison literally warned that "enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm". The system was built to survive idiots and egomaniacs, as long as the people running it respected the rules.

The problem isn't the design, it's that the 'factions' stopped caring about anything but winning. The guardrails only work when everyone agrees they exist. The system didn't fail so much as the people failed the system.

That assumption was the failure. There's no check valve against disingenuous behaviours if you put your own people on the SC, Senate and House who also have no respect for the rules.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That assumption was the failure. There's no check valve against disingenuous behaviours if you put your own people on the SC, Senate and House who also have no respect for the rules.

It worked for 250 years. Trump is so unique.

[peter12]

I mean, the American republic has lasted 250 years. Either it's been a very good run for any regime, or it will outlast and survive Trump.

This is definitely a nadir though.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That assumption was the failure. There's no check valve against disingenuous behaviours if you put your own people on the SC, Senate and House who also have no respect for the rules.

That's entropy for you, no design is infallable when it relies on people. Any system will collapse when the participants decide the rules don't matter.

The founders built a framework, not a self-cleaning oven. When enough people who have the ability to keep it together stop giving a damn, no constitution is gonna save you.

[Fuzz]

They could have designated a reset button whereby the entire Washington Mall is ejected into space for a do-over. What, next you will tell me they didn't anticipate rockets?

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That assumption was the failure. There's no check valve against disingenuous behaviours if you put your own people on the SC, Senate and House who also have no respect for the rules.

It's an assumption, but it's necessary for the purpose of a framework. You have to have an assumption that the co-equal branches of government will adhere to that.

What's happened is that one party has become compromised as one that believes in unitary executive power - something that was hotly debated even by the founding fathers about how much power the executive branch should have.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by peter12

I mean, the American republic has lasted 250 years. Either it's been a very good run for any regime, or it will outlast and survive Trump.

This is definitely a nadir though.

The problem now is that others see how successful Trump has been and subsequent regimes are going to continue to chip away until there's nothing left. Maybe even on both sides. You wonder if the Democrats get back in if they decide to pack the Supreme Court to try and get it back in line. But then, next time the Republicans get in they'll just add more justices and so on.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

The problem now is that others see how successful Trump has been and subsequent regimes are going to continue to chip away until there's nothing left. Maybe even on both sides. You wonder if the Democrats get back in if they decide to pack the Supreme Court to try and get it back in line. But then, next time the Republicans get in they'll just add more justices and so on.

Yup, and not just in the US. Politicians globally are pushing too, using the same techniques.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

The problem now is that others see how successful Trump has been and subsequent regimes are going to continue to chip away until there's nothing left. Maybe even on both sides. You wonder if the Democrats get back in if they decide to pack the Supreme Court to try and get it back in line. But then, next time the Republicans get in they'll just add more justices and so on.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yup, and not just in the US. Politicians globally are pushing too, using the same techniques.

Other way around. Trump didn't invent this, he copied it. The tactics we're seeing now are straight from the despot's playbook. Undermine trust in institutions, flood the zone with bullsh-t, and convince followers only you can fix it. Classic authoritarian strategy we've seen in the past, but tailored for modern America.

He's simply adopting what Putin, Erdoğan, Orbán, and Chávez -- to name a few -- have already done. His attacks on the judiciary, intelligence agencies, media, and electoral system are textbook authoritarian. The only real innovation is the scope and speed with which it has been implemented.