October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by RandyHolt

On the website it says that it's considered non-taxable income so if you donate $200 you'll come out $150 ahead.

Maybe a teacher or two can chime in, if we give some of this money to our kids teachers, is it bad or frowned upon to just give cash in a card? Should we get usable gift cards instead?

That’s incredibly kind of you. Yes, I do not recommend giving cash or even a visa cash card. Gift cards a very common so that’s usually your best bet.

[Calgary Highlander]

What's wrong with a visa gift card? I ask because that's what we gave our kid's teacher.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

That’s incredibly kind of you. Yes, I do not recommend giving cash or even a visa cash card. Gift cards a very common so that’s usually your best bet.

“Hey, Billy’s Dad, why do all these bills roll up into a cylinder in my hand?”

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander

What's wrong with a visa gift card? I ask because that's what we gave our kid's teacher.

Sorry I guess I wasn’t very clear. There’s no concrete rule regarding gifts to teachers from parents, but conflict of interest is a code of conduct item. It’s just a bit of a grey area when parents give cash or cash equivalents because it gives an appearance of a conflict of interest, even if that’s not the case.

That being said, a visa cash card is better than cash. But it would be much less grey if it’s a Starbucks gift card or something like that.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Provincially Ontario tried one term of NDP in 1990. Since then NDP peaked with 33.6% of the votes in 2018, and have not otherwise exceeded 24% in the other 8 elections since 1990. Blue is obviously stronger in AB than ON, but lately that means 52-54% here vs 40% in ON.

Federally, NDP got 4.9%/0 seats of the vote last time, 17.8%/5 (out of 121 seats) the time before, and 16.8%/6 seats in 2019

vs. Alberta 6.3% for 1 seat last time, 19.1% for 2 seats out of 34, 11.6%/1 seat in 2019

While the NDP are certainly the most pro-labour of the 3 parties, the liberals are generally considered at least neutral(even that’s getting worse), but even the cons get some support from Unions in certain parts of Ontario because they actually somewhat try to be reasonable with them. Ford has a surprising amount of Union support in Ontario, so he has to take the political costs of attacking them into consideration. Smith doesn’t. That’s why it was “easier” and effective in Ontario and why it will be more challenging and less effective here.

There’s a reason Unions in Alberta never support conservatives and yet the conservatives win almost all of the time. This is why Unions have to be cautious about putting themselves at risk when the public has shown time and time again that they won’t support them when things get tough for them or they are under attack.

But we don't disagree too much on the rest. Appealing to their supposed expertise and access to information is fine, but might it also be reasonable to challenge the processes and thinking that have seen us remain in the weakest labour situation?

Is it not equally reasonable for someone on the other side to explain to you the reasons why what you’re hoping for isn’t viable and offer solutions as to how we can fix that?

I don't think it's overstatement to say that press conference was the biggest opportunity the labour movement has ever had to make a loud statement in Alberta. I hope they prove me dead wrong, but I simply think they failed to seize that moment.

I don’t think that it’s an overstatement to say that given the historic lack of support shown for Unions by voters in this province that it wouldn’t take a whole lot to give them more assurance that they won’t be shooting themselves in the foot if they try to lead the charge on this.

I still think that your assessment that they didn’t do enough is a result of your expectations being unrealistic given what you’re asking them to do and a lack of understanding of what it will cost them.

[Major Major]

With all this talk from UCP about irreparable harm to students learning, I am curious why they didn't make provisions to make up that instructional time. CBE students lost 15 instructional days. That can be made up for by eliminating fall break next week, eliminating PD days and extending the school calendar to July 3.

Every minute of school could have been made up for without touching a single day of spring break, Christmas or any stat.

Provide some online course work for teachers to do in the summer to complete their PD responsibilities. There was no emergency here.

[Fuzz]

They didn't make provisions because they don't actually give a #### about education, evidenced by everything they have ever done.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by RandyHolt

On the website it says that it's considered non-taxable income so if you donate $200 you'll come out $150 ahead.

Maybe a teacher or two can chime in, if we give some of this money to our kids teachers, is it bad or frowned upon to just give cash in a card? Should we get usable gift cards instead?

I heard it was taxable but never checked.

Originally Posted by Wolven

It is an overstatement.

Moving to recall all 44 MLAs who signed the Notwithstanding Clause is a much bigger opportunity for the labour movement to make a statement.

Actions > Words into a microphone.

Words into a microphone ---> actions

If we can achieve even a single recall that will be a massive moment. I'm not sure it will be a clear 'labour' moment though - I think a lot will see it as more about public education and the general progressive movement in Alberta. Just semantics and it doesn't really matter, it would be huge.

My point is that they didn't do anything but preach to the converted on Wednesday (and I'm not sure how well they did that).

Labour putting a lot of eggs in the recall basket is fine, but how many of the 350,000 union workers you mentioned earlier live in Edmonton? How effectively can you mobilize them towards recalls as you suggested earlier?

And I hate to be a wet blanket, but let's say the recall on Nicolaides is succesfull and NDP wins the byelection (hopefully still under the old boundaries). Calgary-Bow (UCP by 623 last time) is going to be a lot harder for NDP when the boundaries change, because Montgomery (NDP +500) is being deleted and replaced by the increased residents in West District. If it flipped back to blue it would undermine the ultimate impact of the recall (few people would be aware of the nuance). I'm certainly not arguing that's a reason to not proceed, but the lasting impact of that would not be as great as an effective general strike (which I absolutely admit is not a certainty).

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Major Major

With all this talk from UCP about irreparable harm to students learning, I am curious why they didn't make provisions to make up that instructional time. CBE students lost 15 instructional days. That can be made up for by eliminating fall break next week, eliminating PD days and extending the school calendar to July 3.

Every minute of school could have been made up for without touching a single day of spring break, Christmas or any stat.

Provide some online course work for teachers to do in the summer to complete their PD responsibilities. There was no emergency here.

I don't think they can do it. Those dates aren't set by the government they are set by board trustees, they aren't the same for all school boards. Also don't just affect teachers but other school staff. There is talk of things like cancelling diploma exams and changing the exam dates to instructional days. But changing a day when support staff are not scheduled to be working to one they are is more difficult. I suspect a lot of teachers would be happy to work some of those days and replace some of their lost income from the strike - though the UCP probably doesn't want to spend that money anyhow.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I don't think they can do it. Those dates aren't set by the government they are set by board trustees, they aren't the same for all school boards. Also don't just affect teachers but other school staff. There is talk of things like cancelling diploma exams and changing the exam dates to instructional days. But changing a day when support staff are not scheduled to be working to one they are is more difficult. I suspect a lot of teachers would be happy to work some of those days and replace some of their lost income from the strike - though the UCP probably doesn't want to spend that money anyhow.

Right, but if this were truly an emergency of irreparable student harm, any of the obstacles you mentioned would be navigable. My point is, they don't care about harm done to students and are happy to save money on their backs. If the province mandated the making up of instructional time, boards would fall in line.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Major Major

With all this talk from UCP about irreparable harm to students learning, I am curious why they didn't make provisions to make up that instructional time. CBE students lost 15 instructional days. That can be made up for by eliminating fall break next week, eliminating PD days and extending the school calendar to July 3.

Every minute of school could have been made up for without touching a single day of spring break, Christmas or any stat.

Provide some online course work for teachers to do in the summer to complete their PD responsibilities. There was no emergency here.

There isn’t much to move in Elementary or Junior High. But high schools will depend on whether January diplomas are still a go. System level professional learning is canceled until January so maybe there’s some PD days there, not sure yet.

CBE directors have created 3 different scenarios depending on whether diplomas are still happening, optional, or canceled. If it’s canceled, they will also cancel exam break, which will provide 72 instructional days in high schools. With 78 before the strike, that means high schools will only have lost 6 instructional days.

But apparently, whatever is happening with the diplomas appears to be the premier’s decision. Moving forward with it doesn’t seem to be a good choice as students are already pissed off, but who knows; I also didn’t predict that they’d use the notwithstanding clause so what do I know.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Major Major

With all this talk from UCP about irreparable harm to students learning, I am curious why they didn't make provisions to make up that instructional time. CBE students lost 15 instructional days. That can be made up for by eliminating fall break next week, eliminating PD days and extending the school calendar to July 3.

Every minute of school could have been made up for without touching a single day of spring break, Christmas or any stat.

Provide some online course work for teachers to do in the summer to complete their PD responsibilities. There was no emergency here.

Is that something the government can even do? The government sets the minimum standards but they don't establish or legislate a schedule from what I know. The school boards set the schedule to meet the minimum educational hours/days. I'm sure that teachers and maybe voters would be pissed if the UCP started unilaterally reconfiguring school schedules that were sets many months ago.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Is that something the government can even do?

Lol, is this a real question?

[Point Blank]

lol the government just told you they can literally do whatever the #### they want.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

While the NDP are certainly the most pro-labour of the 3 parties, the liberals are generally considered at least neutral(even that’s getting worse), but even the cons get some support from Unions in certain parts of Ontario because they actually somewhat try to be reasonable with them. Ford has a surprising amount of Union support in Ontario, so he has to take the political costs of attacking them into consideration. Smith doesn’t. That’s why it was “easier” and effective in Ontario and why it will be more challenging and less effective here.

There’s a reason Unions in Alberta never support conservatives and yet the conservatives win almost all of the time. This is why Unions have to be cautious about putting themselves at risk when the public has shown time and time again that they won’t support them when things get tough for them or they are under attack.



Is it not equally reasonable for someone on the other side to explain to you the reasons why what you’re hoping for isn’t viable and offer solutions as to how we can fix that?



I don’t think that it’s an overstatement to say that given the historic lack of support shown for Unions by voters in this province that it wouldn’t take a whole lot to give them more assurance that they won’t be shooting themselves in the foot if they try to lead the charge on this.

I still think that your assessment that they didn’t do enough is a result of your expectations being unrealistic given what you’re asking them to do and a lack of understanding of what it will cost them.

My unrealistic expecatations were driven by the 'unprecedented response' that was promised. I'm totally fine with a slow process, I just think they did a crappy job of selling it (or explaining what it will cost them, or explaining any of the other good points you have been making).

The only action I wanted to see was threatening a big general strike. No timelines or details necessary. "we are continuing to iron out those details with our members, and it does not serve us to disclose anything further at this time."

Let our imaginations run wild, let business's imaginations run wild, and let the UCPs imaginations run wild. Uncertainty was the most powerful tool in the box, and IMO Gil squandered it. Maybe there are thousands out there who didn't hear those remarks? But I'm pretty sure the UCP did...(and I don't mean to lay the blame on Gil...I presume that press conference was the culmination of a group effort)

You can always walk back expectations later if necessary. But not necessarily.


As for the Ontario comparison, you're right. But I'd venture that Alberta has a different challenge in the sense that a higher proportion of union members here likely vote blue. That's tricky to navigate, but they could also be an opportunity.

[5abi]

Not much but I made this today

[Johnny Makarov]

not enough boobs... lol

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Words into a microphone ---> actions

If we can achieve even a single recall that will be a massive moment. I'm not sure it will be a clear 'labour' moment though - I think a lot will see it as more about public education and the general progressive movement in Alberta. Just semantics and it doesn't really matter, it would be huge.

My point is that they didn't do anything but preach to the converted on Wednesday (and I'm not sure how well they did that).

Labour putting a lot of eggs in the recall basket is fine, but how many of the 350,000 union workers you mentioned earlier live in Edmonton? How effectively can you mobilize them towards recalls as you suggested earlier?

And I hate to be a wet blanket, but let's say the recall on Nicolaides is succesfull and NDP wins the byelection (hopefully still under the old boundaries). Calgary-Bow (UCP by 623 last time) is going to be a lot harder for NDP when the boundaries change, because Montgomery (NDP +500) is being deleted and replaced by the increased residents in West District. If it flipped back to blue it would undermine the ultimate impact of the recall (few people would be aware of the nuance). I'm certainly not arguing that's a reason to not proceed, but the lasting impact of that would not be as great as an effective general strike (which I absolutely admit is not a certainty).

I listened to Gil and heard a very clear message. They are going to fight back, they are going to respond to the 'nuclear' decision to use the Notwithstanding Clause by working to topple the government, and they want to make Smith return to her career as a radio host. Those are not vague or small ideas. That is literally a union saying to a government 'we are fighting you'.

Which part of that message is fuzzy to you? How do you feel that saying "topple the government" is a message to just the converted? (I think that is a very serious message to all Albertans.)

I think the problem here is in your own head. You have an idea how you want this to be going right now and are not hearing what they are saying even as they are saying it. They say "topple the government" and all you think is "they did not clearly lay out the steps they are going to take toward a general strike". Even in talking about the recall, you are only acknowledging one riding and they are talking about 44 recalls.

Maybe you should stop being a wet blanket, stop being so critical, and start planning how you can contribute? They only need to succeed in 8/44 recalls and I honestly think people are angry enough to do it as we are coming off the heels of the 456,000 people that signed the Forever Canadian petition. This is a big moment, it may even become a historic moment.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Major Major

With all this talk from UCP about irreparable harm to students learning, I am curious why they didn't make provisions to make up that instructional time. CBE students lost 15 instructional days. That can be made up for by eliminating fall break next week, eliminating PD days and extending the school calendar to July 3.

Every minute of school could have been made up for without touching a single day of spring break, Christmas or any stat.

Provide some online course work for teachers to do in the summer to complete their PD responsibilities. There was no emergency here.

There are more costs than teacher salaries to open schools. Support staff, caretakers, bussing and other costs are incurred. The UCP are not providing additional funds to public schools! They have made that crystal clear. Boards don't have enough money to pay for all these things.

On top of that, if you took days like fall break where teachers were not working, and now asked them to work, you would need to pay them. Teachers would need to be paid for online course work in the summer or if you extended the school year into July.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

There are more costs than teacher salaries to open schools. Support staff, caretakers, bussing and other costs are incurred. The UCP are not providing additional funds to public schools! They have made that crystal clear. Boards don't have enough money to pay for all these things.

On top of that, if you took days like fall break where teachers were not working, and now asked them to work, you would need to pay them. Teachers would need to be paid for online course work in the summer or if you extended the school year into July.

There never used to be a fall break, so did teachers take a pay cut when that was implemented?